Musical outrage

[Figuremod73]

The biggest outrage your likely to see now is Miley Cyrus manufacturing controversy to shake away the Hanna Montana image or that song from Robin Thicke that supposively rips off a Marvin Gaye hit.

Once MTV changed its format and mp3's gained such a widespread acceptance, the music industry has changed. Youtube is even further changing the way we listen. The Billboard top 40 use to be a good indication of what was good, now I cant sit and listen to any thing on it. When someone ask me do I like so and so, I have no idea what they're talking about. Its almost to easy to cut a record now. You get lots of bad acts in with the good.

Loved those Kisses songs. Going to look more into them. Its hard and time consuming looking into new acts. Theres just to much to go thru to find what I would accept into my steady stream of music I've been listening to for the last thirty years or so.

[Figuremod73]

Dude you missed it, it was August 30. They had a reunion show where they recorded a live album and possible DVD. However, if your's in Japan next week they're playing three shows there.

Ummm.....dont let Beavis and Butthead know.

[ctc]

>It's all processed now, formulated to appeal to select demographics.

I don't think that's NEW though. The 50's were HORRIBLE for that, as were the 70's.

>In the past in the news every time a teenager did something violent it was because they listed to 'this' kind of music, or 'that' kind of music. Now it's because they play violent video games.

I don't think this is wrong, but I don't think it's quite the whole story since the rage against video games has been pretty anemic too; other then "the kids play too much of them! Grrr!" And I can remember back in the day there was enough hatred for Metal music, video games AND Dungeons & Dragons! At the same time! I guess the parents of today are just lazy.

>2013 has been one of the best years for music for me.
>THe music industry will eventually be compromised by the independent artist recording everything in his bedroom

Music is AWESOME overall nowadays 'cos no matter what you like SOMEBODY'S still making it, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EX11Xi4pak ) and thanks to the internets they can get it directly to the fans. You can find stuff you never IMAGINED that someone's making. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDRHx4cPgbE ) I was having a talk with a friend about that, and I think that's part of why you don't hear a lot of outrage nowadays. The audience is pretty fragmented, and the stuff that has mainstream appeal is WAY weak.... almost too weak to find threatening. ("EEEKKK! Katy Perry!")

>I think the problem has more to do with too much variety in the mainstream than anything else.

Yeah, like that. Although it's still troubling 'cos the outrage never REALLY had anything to do with the music; it was aimed at the kids 'cos they represented change, novelty and obsolescence for the parents. Maybe that's part of it too: if you love and/or obsess over any old, dead style of music there's still SOMEBODY out there producing it. Which is nice for me 'cos I like variety, but bad for outrage 'cos it means it's WAY easy for potential hatemongers to coccoon and never have to deal with "whatever them kids is into these days."

>The reason our parents hated our music, their parents before them hated theirs and we don't get the music out now.

Yeah, like that. It's not just the music; hence why certain styles.... especially the offensive ones.... get linked with some sort of counterculture, and the percieved value system thereof. Disco wasn't just the horrible, repetitive, syntehesized music. It was the eye watering fashion, chains and hairy chests, key parties and sniffing coke in the bathroom of the club. Jazz was the beats, drinking strong coffee and smoking too much, thumbing their noses at society, kanoodling, incomprehensibe music for kanooddling, incomprehensible people.... even if it wasn't. The music itself wasn't the problem; it was all that other stuff that inexorably (according to popular ire) went with it. First you heard Elvis, then you saw him swing his hips, then you greased up your hair, joined a violence gang and hung out with easy women.

Maybe our countercultures have all become so staid that they no longer shock. Maybe we've plumbed the very depths of rebellion and there's nothing left. I was watching a doccumentary where they talked about shock rockers, and one commentor said that the only way you'd shock anyone today is if you committed suicide on stage. Which was Alice Cooper's act back in the 70's.... so even THAT'S been done.

Maybe we're at a point where everything is so hyped, advertised, analyzed and vetted that nothing is scary any more.

>The Billboard top 40 use to be a good indication of what was good,

Having lived theough the 80's I have to disagree....

Don C.

[Brazoo]

A few thoughts occur to me -

1) It's possible (as people suggested) that with the fall of the music industry and the rise of things like video games and social networking that music has less a cultural influence on kids now, so less interesting to the popular media.


2) When I was a kid the first time I heard "Fight the Power" it sounded ferocious to me, now it's a golden oldie. Maybe we've become too accustomed to the things that use to be challenging and nothing new has come along in a while. I guess there ARE newish things like dubstep:

...but it's still maybe too under the radar for people to get angry about?


3) We've had a 100+ years of recorded music with EVERY generation saying the new generations music is going to destroy destroy the fabric of society and blah, blah, blah... Maybe people are widely starting to recognize that the fear is irrational. Generally speaking humans repeat the same mistakes over and over - but, in the last 100 years we've made huge strides with other irrational ideas - like racism. So, who knows. Maybe people can change.


4) Of course, we're looking at OUR culture here - I'm sure there are places where people still freak out about music destroying the world.

[Brazoo]

I think you guys are listening to the wrong things. Sure Top 40 Pop sounds like garbage but 2013 has been one of the best years for music for me..

That's awesome to hear man - I totally agree! There's been some amazing stuff lately, it just takes a bit of looking. But EVERYTHING is online now - it's so easy to look if you want - so I don't get when people complain. I remember the old days when you had to buy albums based on one single you heard on the radio and all the other tracks sucked.

I can't wait to check out everything on your list!

(Having said all that, even now a new popular song will come out and grab me. This week Sky Ferreia's "You're Not The Only One" keeps getting stuck in my head. So damn catchy.)

[Brazoo]

Music is AWESOME overall nowadays 'cos no matter what you like SOMEBODY'S still making it,

Yup!

>The Billboard top 40 use to be a good indication of what was good,

Having lived theough the 80's I have to disagree.....

[ctc]

>Maybe people are widely starting to recognize that the fear is irrational.

I'd LIKE to think that, but it's the irrationality that makes me doubt it. There's always something, mostly 'cos the outrage has little to do with the actual expressed target and more to do with the general passage of time. Hence why it happens every generation. I'd expect maybe something else took over the music role, but I' haven't seen it. The old video game saw got broken out a couple years back, but that had no traction. The social networking thing seems to be the current bugaboo, but even THAT'S half-hearted. Doubtless 'cos everybody does it, so you can't sell it as the passtime of "them." (I think the last really good technological outrage was when we found out the internets wasn't like a truck....)

I wponder if that's 'cos technology is now marketed to young AND old. So it's harder to sell the idea of it's corrupting influence. I can't remember seeing the "my grandkids'll figure it out" trope for a bit.

>but it's still maybe too under the radar for people to get angry about?

Or too bland; although if someone can come up with a "dubstep culture" angle.... and how it leads to moral degeneration.... I'm sure we'll see some hate.

Don C.

[Brazoo]

The video games thing seems to go in cycles - basically every time there's a mass shooting or a new version of GTA.


--

Another thought - maybe contemporary adults and kids share so much of the same culture now that it's nullified cultural rebellion. They watch the same movies, play the same games, and definitely listen to the same music - on the whole. When I was growing up my parents were listening to a lot of people who were in their generation - now middle aged people almost exclusively listen to singers in their late teens to early 20s.

Maybe that's why a lot of the hotter bands just outside the mainstream seem like they're trying to sound sophisticated. Like who is on top of the college charts right now? Arcade Fire? They kinda sound like music for old people to me. I can't get excited about them - and I'm an old person! Maybe that's where the rebellion is now - getting rid of the kid's stuff?

[spacecaps]

Here's an easy way to find music you like. If you hear something you like, someone mentioned Kisses, go on Amazon and do a search for them under music. Lots of bands have obscure one word names that won't come up on a google search and "Kisses" will most likely result in another band with a very similar name popping up. So search Kisses Huddle or something. Check out their albums, eps, and remixes. At the bottom start randomly clicking on "Other people that bought this also bought..." I do that every so often and get absolutely lost for a few hours discovering new acts. It also works on Youtube too but with sites like Amazon, your usually in the ballpark where youtube can be anything related to the word search.
m
Dubstep. There are few types of music that get under my skin. Hardcore rap is one. Cookie monster like screaming in metal is another. Rapping during an otherwise perfectly good rock song. And dubstep. If you like nothing but a wub-wub bass shaking your bowels, than I guess that's good music. I look at dubstep as the disco of this era. One day people are gonna realize, what the heck was I thinking... I could be wrong but you can only listing to Wub Wub-Wub Wub so many times before it all just sounds the same. For an example of how the dub step sound can be used more um, melodically, check out Purity Ring. Out of everything that came out this year their album, Finershrine is probably my personal album of the year..to say the least.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVcOwVD4V30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqw4wo8vdY8

I'd actually say Katy Perry is actually one of the more talented mainstream artist out there. I don't like most of her stuff but at least she's more substance than style. And while she's edgy she at least possesses a somewhat wholesome quality to her. Has any one seen her video to Last Friday Night. Even if you don't like her at all or just dismiss it because bubble gum music. Check it out because that's a John Huges-esque mini movie right there. And it was her idea. And she wrote the song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlyXNRrsk4A And her new video for that song Roar. Pretty good too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CevxZvSJLk8 What I'm saying is that at least there's creativity coming from the artist there. My 7 year old really likes her. He even asked to go see her when she comes around and I really don't have a problem with that. If he had come home wanting to see someone like Miley Cirus, I would have said no.

That whole Miley Cyrus thing that was mentioned before. Pure marketing stunt. Why? Because she was about to fade into obscurity. her "team" came up with the whole idea and it worked gangbusters. Months later people are still talking about it. It'll go down as one of the defining pop culture moments of 2013. That's a case of more style than substance.

As for sharing the same culture as my kid, granted he's only 7 but I remember growing up and my parents forbade me to own Slippery When Wet and Like A Virgin. They were my age now when those albums came out. Today I take my kid to the record store. I've taken him to about 30 concerts already. Elton John, Fleetwood Mac, Awolnation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPtSKimbjOU, Boy, Bon Jovi, Florence & The Machine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EIeUlvHAiM, Madonna, Peter Gabriel, Bruce Springsteen, Dave Matthews....Those are just the concerts we've been to together off the top of my head but he and I have that to share which when I was a kid, was something I never had in common with my parents. He's got a list of bands he wants to see too. Whenever a Capitol Cities song comes on he says "When they come by can we go see them." Every. Time.

I wouldn't feel too bad about not liking Arcade Fire either. For the most part their popularity is an anomaly. That's Indie Rock for people that want to like Indie Rock but don't really know anything about it. It's kind of like knowing Derek Jeter is on the Yankees but not being able to name any other baseball player in the league. Similar bands like Broken Social Scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6BLuIm872I http://vimeo.com/9939997 never got the same recognition despite being way more talented. For a similar up and coming band you may like, check out Of Monsters & Men. If you've seen the Walter Mitty trailer, you've already herd them.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZZGfux58LI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghb6eDopW8I

[ctc]

>The video games thing seems to go in cycles - basically every time there's a mass shooting or a new version of GTA.

Yeah.... Even then it's been pretty limp the last few times around. I suspect that's 'cos video games haven't progressed all that much since the first gen Playstation days. It's hard to create that "us vs them" gap when the games are that similar. That's what I've found the irony to be: people get all woked up over the same sort of thing they loved when they were young. (How many Marilyn Manson haters were Alice Cooper fans? The irony being Manson's actual songs, lyrically tend to be pretty middle of the road; whereas Cooper's were often damned sinister and vile.)

I think that's why the issue stuck in my craw; it seems like there's been an overall malaise for N. American culture. LIke I mentioned in the comic section; we haven't had one of them big, sweeping changes for a while and it's starting to feel like we might not ever again. That the sweeping changes tend to be small and isolated now. Which is a mixed blessing.

>I look at dubstep as the disco of this era.

Good call. It's basically cranked down techno, and techno was the disco of the 90's. And it IS the 90's again, which means it's also the 70's again, which means we need another iteration of disco.

*sigh*

These might help; or make it worse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Au0xCg3PI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3VIJTFS3Nc

>One day people are gonna realize, what the heck was I thinking...

You'd think, but I doubt it. People look for different things from their entertainment. For a lot of folks music is a background thing, so as long as it's lively and not too distracting they're content. I take my tunes seriously, so it takes a little more to entertain me. Stuff like dubstep or disco doesn't thrill me 'cos I like interesting lyrics, musical complexity, depth of sound. I think that's why I like classical, and power metal. Power metal is like opera, with guitars, and they sing about the kind of characters I like in my movies, comics and tv shows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YbhB_A_8fM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz2qeb_0Se8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKu0do-Y9sE

>There are few types of music that get under my skin.

Old-school country!

>Hardcore rap is one. Cookie monster like screaming in metal is another.

Well, okay. Those too. What do rap, screamo and country have in common? They're types of music that it's really easy to put together a song recognizable as one of those styles. So anyone can slap something together and market it; flooding the genre with a lot of really, REALLY bad music. I think that's why these three come up so often in people's "Most hated" lists. If you listen to the rap of the 00's, they were all using the same phrasology, themes, ideas.... VERY cut and paste. As bad as the 50's crooners were. Nobody takes the time to sift through it all to find something appealing 'cos there's always something else to listen to.

So.... what about hardcore rap about Batman?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyZNBxn9_Ok

This sums up the screamo thing pretty well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chiVMrWMHko

There's even some country that's pretty good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIWINsaEpnw (Although in this case I might be biased. 'Cos I'm armour qualified the song has personal appeal.)

>I'd actually say Katy Perry is actually one of the more talented mainstream artist out there. I don't like most of her stuff but at least she's more substance than style.

I agree with the first part; but remember that "out there" implies a relativistic effect. As for substance? I saw one critic refer to her as "two boobs and an upbeat message." I think that's about right.

>Check it out because that's a John Huges-esque mini movie right there.

You're right, but I HATED John Huges. So it doesn't help.

Although I think what's nice about certain eras is the choice. Mainstream 80's blew, but that was so much going on musically you could find SOMETHING cool. That sort of died in the 90's, when EVERYTHING was alternative; and the 00's, when you could choose either boy band or rap. The 60's had a lot of choice too. Maybe the boom in choice we enjoy now is 'cos we're just leaving the 80's again, and the 80's were the 60's again? Instead of 'zines and traded casettes; like those eras, we have the internets.

>That whole Miley Cyrus thing that was mentioned before. Pure marketing stunt. Why?

'Cos that's how they ALWAYS do it? I was surprised here that a lot of commentors noted that the "pop princess/rock tart" process seems universal. I think that's why it wasn't a bigger deal. Usually there's a freakout, 'cos ire is good for viewership.

>If you hear something you like, someone mentioned Kisses, go on Amazon and do a search for them under music.

....or the youtube. Sometimes if you're lucky you'll key up withn some folks who's taste is nothing like yours and they'll recommend all sorts of new stuff.

Don C.

[Brazoo]

Broken Social Scene is from here, so I've given them loads of chances for years, but I just can't get excited about it. I dig some of the Feist solo stuff though, and Brendan Canning deejays a lot around the city - he's cool.

BSS, Of Monsters and Men, Arcade Fire, and a lot of the bands I loosely mentally file them all in the same Pitchfork-atmospheric-folk-rock category. It's probably unfair of me, and none of these bands are untalented by any means, they're just a bit dreary for my personal tastes...

Those bands, and Vampire Weekend, Fleet Foxes, Mumford & Sons, Lumineers - the modern kings of "indie" don't sound youthful to me. They sound disciplined, overly textured, folky and kinda dreary to me. I think maybe it's because pop music is so full of young energy that people looking for an alternative to what's popular gravitate to the opposite.

So, like, in the 70s when rebel kids heard The Carpenters and went for Sex Pistols - in the 80s they heard Phil Collins and tuned into N.W.A. - now we have loud silly pop music and the rebels are listening to stuff that sounds (to me) like it's been influenced by The Carpenters.

(Not that there's anything particularly wrong with The Carpenters - I'm just using them to try and show my logic here.)

--

I'm with you. Dubstep and screamo are impenetrable to me, but also seem very silly. I can't take it seriously. Industrial music too - though, I guess some of it's influences have paid off.

I kinda like a lot of old disco now - but I dislike like A TON of techno, dance and reggae...

--

A few of my favorite Toronto acts are:

F***ed Up - which mashes hard core with pop music, taking a page from Husker Du and adding more to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW0-jrDeSgQ

Anagram - which have broken up and recently partially reformed as Surinam (but check out Anagram's albums - they're great.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XjqEy6MTH4

Maylee Todd - old school pop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJUgor4bH-w

[ctc]

>I loosely mentally file them all in the same Pitchfork-atmospheric-folk-rock category.

I have never heard that term before. It's pretty apt, but doesn't quite roll of the tongue.

>they're just a bit dreary for my personal tastes.

I think that's a key; knowing that taste accounts for a lot. Too often folks think appeal = quality, and it stifles the conversation.

>Dubstep and screamo are impenetrable to me, but also seem very silly.

Most of the best things in life are silly. (Like Daleks, and superheroes.) I'm not a huge fan of either style, but there are the odd thrash and screamo songs that appeal to me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DnU7EOqG1k (Best. Workout song. EVER!)

What I like about that one is the lyrics are actually quite upbeat. (Covers the exact same ground as Katy Perry's "Fireworks." But with less clevage and different phrasology.)

>F***ed Up - which mashes hard core with pop music,

....but Arcade Fire is too dreary for you? Bands like this are interesting 'cos they couldn't happen, except as an "independant" group. Those're pretty screamo vocals there, under poppy tunes.

A lot of good stuff comes out of the S. Ontario area:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRORdcnERSE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSAVH182i_s

I live next to Detroit, so there's a LOT of good stuff around here. Probably why we have such good record stores. (Our Dr Disk is the only one that made money.)

Don C.

[Brazoo]

I think that's a key; knowing that taste accounts for a lot. Too often folks think appeal = quality, and it stifles the conversation.

Absolutely! Taste is taste. There's good stuff I hate, and there's bad stuff I love.

>F***ed Up - which mashes hard core with pop music,

....but Arcade Fire is too dreary for you? Bands like this are interesting 'cos they couldn't happen, except as an "independant" group. Those're pretty screamo vocals there, under poppy tunes.

Haha - yeah, I think I posted one of their more emotional tracks. But if you're at all into hardcore then check out David Comes To Life - it's a crazy experiment of hardcore meets pop concept album - and it sounds like a mess, but it all works for me. It's true that screamo is kinda like hardcore's dumb nephew - so there is some crossover for sure. I do think the screaming in screamo is less intelligible, and the music less interesting - but I recognize that it's really just down to my personal taste.

If you do get to see F***ed Up live though - check them out for sure!

A lot of good stuff comes out of the S. Ontario area:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRORdcnERSE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSAVH182i_s

I live next to Detroit, so there's a LOT of good stuff around here. Probably why we have such good record stores. (Our Dr Disk is the only one that made money.)

Don C.

There are lots of great Detroit bands for sure!

[spacecaps]

For a while Canada was the place for Indie Rock Music. The (terrible) band Of Montreal isn't even from Montreal. They just named themselves that because that's where the sound was at the time and they were making similar music that sounded like it came (out) Of Montreal. Hence the pretentious name they gave themselves. BSS has kind of fallen off the map. Im not really sure they're still playing together anymore. Their last effort was also a huge turd. It was called "Forgiveness Rock Record" but most people call it "Forgive This Rock Record" What I meant about them as that while Arcade Fire is "just a band", BSS is a super group. Every member of that group is a member of another, usually more successful band. Kevin Drew and Brendan Canning do their own things but then you've got Feist, parts of Metric (which I hear are massive now in Canada) more than half of Stars (which should be massive everywhere) The Apostle of Hustle, Jason Collett and probably someone else I'm leaving out. They should sound older too. Most of those guys in that band are close to or over 40.

Most of the Indie bands you mentioned are part of that "mainstream indie" which is over played hipster rock. All that hipster music gives the whole scene a bad vibe to it because it does sound tired and a lot of it sounds the same. Vampire Weekend and Fleet Foxes are interchangeable. Mumford & Sons and The Lumineers could be the same band. Also most of those bands have good songs, but not good albums. There's like 3 or 4 tunes crafted for radio play but the rest of the album is lacking. A band that can put 12 solid songs on one LP is impressive. I don't know if you've heard The Lumineers songs that aren't Ho Hey and Stubbron Love but nothing else on the album even comes close to that sound. Compare that to Boys Mutual Friends album and every single song delivers without sounding repetitive. Kisses Kids in LA doesn't have a skipper track on it. And again, I cannot say enough about Purity Ring, but the later two bands are odd and artsy so and Boy is two girls from Germany so they don't get a whole lot of attention. Pitchfork caters to the Hipsters. I stopped reading them because of that. For every Mumford & Sons and Fleet Foxes, I've got three other bands that at least sound like they enjoy what they're doing. Of Mice & Men does have an older sound too but most of those members just turned legal drinking age. In their case, at least their album is solid. Also, if you ever see what they look like, the lead singer is a dead ringer for Samwell Tarley from Game of Thrones. Talk about not fitting the traditional rock stereotype.

[Random Axe]

I see a different perspective with the lack of outrage or whatever you'd call it. I have a couple of employees who have an appreciation for classic rock and some 80's hair metal. I think our general demographic, ages 38-50, has done a pretty good job of "passing down" and sharing the music we listened to in our youth and growing up and bridging a lot of gaps between generations and negating a lot of the cultural animosity and differences. When I have guys on their lunch breaks watching videos on their phone of Dio, Deep Purple, Journey and the like I temporarily am filled with hope for our musical future. My 27-year old floor supervisor's favorite all-time band is Thin Lizzy. I find that a bit refreshing.