Vinnie Vincent former Kiss guitarist is a giant loser now

[VintageMike]

I thought Eric Carr was a great replacement for Peter Criss but wasn't big on KISS after he passed away.

[megojim]

look he turned into Grace Slick!

[MIB41]

Nice comparison Dark Shadow. I know Vinnie made some contributions. But I have always felt they were not as significant as he has advertised. Paul was the key architect that kept the band together and going with songs popular enough for radio through the 80's. Even Gene was wanting to split and go Hollywood. Thank God he listened to Paul and stayed in the band.

[SUP-Ronin]

Totally looks like some crazy old lady, that would hang out at the laundromat, cussing little kids, and smoking a lot.

[toys2cool]

KISS is and will always be Gene, Paul, Peter and Ace.

SC

you know it

[Twiki1979]

Vinnie's Contributions While In The Band (Very Late 1982 - Early 1984):

• Creatures Of The Night - 3 Song Co-Credits, Only one of those songs received air play, not their best selling single by any stretch. Album sales were low, and the tour was cut short due to low attendance levels. Album received Gold Status. 56 Shows Performed.

• Lick It Up - 8 Song Co-Credits, Two of which received air play & one of those two was actually written by all four members. Neither were huge hits. Album sales went up as did concert attendance. This is attributed to the strength of the music, the rise in popularity of that style of music at the time, and the hype behind the removal of their makeup. Album Received Platinum Status. 94 Shows Performed.

Kiss did much better in album sales & concert attendance between Mid 1984 - late 1990 (with Bruce Kulick on board):

• Animalize - 1 Song received air play & reached highest chart position since Dynasty's "I Was Made For Loving You", Highest selling KISS album since Alive II, concert attendance very high, shows were frequently added to venues. Platinum Status/119 Shows Performed.

• Asylum - 3 Songs received air play, one of which charted higher than "Lick It Up", Gold Status/91 Shows Performed.

• Crazy Nights - 3 Songs received air play, two of which chart higher than "Lick It Up". Platinum Status/129 Shows Performed

• Hot In The Shade - 3 Songs received air play, all of which chart higher than "Lick It Up", one charts highest since Destroyer's "Beth". Gold Status/123 Shows Performed.

Vinnie's Musical Contributions While Out Of The Band:

• Revenge - 3 Song Co-Credits, Two of which received air play. Neither were huge hits, Album sales were at an all time low and concert attendance was 2nd lowest in their careeer, tour cut short. Album Received Gold Status. 64 Shows + 13 Small Club Performances.

Vinnie is a very self-destructive individual who was in KISS for less than 1.5 years (out of their 38.5 year long career). It's sad that every time he does something stupid KISS has to be drug through the mud with him.

Your facts are just your opinion bro...your telling me Lick It Up which Vinnie co wrote is not one of KISS' biggest songs?? or I Love it loud?? Kiss never had a ton of "hits" but what they did have was immensly popular songs...and sorry but I love it loud and Lick it up are two of their biggest....those are two of the songs that saved their ***...Lick It Up was the only popular song off of that album....I love it loud was the only video made from Creatures,two of vinnies songs were released as singles for revenge...

Several EX kiss members are considered losers by most peoples standards...Ace was an alcoholic,drug addict junkie who is notorius for treating his fans like crap...Peter was guilty of the same for decades...aside from Beth which Peter cowrote with multiple other people what songs did he write that helped carry KISS on to this very day?

[huedell]

There are a lot of "Vinnie haters" here,
so I'll be the one dissenting voice here....

The album in which Vinnie contributed three co-writes
(CREATURES OF THE NIGHT) is in KISS' top 5 albums
as far as good songs IMHO... and will always
be known as their "best metal" album following KISS' "classic" era
which ranged from hard rock to prog to disco & didn't really
embrace metal until Vinnie joined.

Songs from CREATURES helped usher in a "new" "heavier" KISS...
and the song I LOVE IT LOUD, which Vinnie co-wrote might not have
"sold" a lot... but it is one of KISS' most respected songs bar none.
It is STILL consistently included in setlists to this day.

The CREATURES album helped raise KISS' profile within their slipping
core fans, but it was Vinnie's NEXT KISS album contributions that
helped the band actually start toi sell respectable numbers with an overall
audience.... the album was LICK IT UP, and the title track is one
of the most enduring hard rock tracks from the 80s that KISS will
continue to pimp in their setlist til they drop.

9 years after LICK IT UP, the album REVENGE, as CREATURES did before
it... redefined KISS... and of the 3 Vinnie co-writes on REVENGE,
UNHOLY was another setlist mainstay due to it's incredible impact
on revitalizing Gene's demon image. Altho not as recognizable as
I LOVE IT LOUD, UNHOLY is still included in the set these days as well.

Your facts are just your opinion bro...your telling me Lick It Up which Vinnie co wrote is not one of KISS' biggest songs?? or I Love it loud?? Kiss never had a ton of "hits" but what they did have was immensly popular songs...and sorry but I love it loud and Lick it up are two of their biggest....those are two of the songs that saved their ***...Lick It Up was the only popular song off of that album....I love it loud was the only video made from Creatures,two of vinnies songs were released as singles for revenge...

Several EX kiss members are considered losers by most peoples standards...Ace was an alcoholic,drug addict junkie who is notorius for treating his fans like crap...Peter was guilty of the same for decades...aside from Beth which Peter cowrote with multiple other people what songs did he write that helped carry KISS on to this very day?

I hear ya.... I was posting the above while YOU were posting YOUR above

[Dark Shadow]

Thanks MIB41...and I agree, Paul was the one who maintained focus and direction.

_________________________________________

Paul, Gene, Ace & Peter were great from 1973 to 1977.

The band started to wane when the drummer & the lead guitarist decided they wanted to shuck their backbone roles and fight for the spotlight. It became an "us" vs. "them" mentality. Engaging in excessive substance abuse and becoming adversarial never works in your favor when you're demanding respect. And packing up your toys & going home, well that's just the weakest card to play...in any circumstance.

[huedell]

Unless I read wrong...I really think there are major misconceptions
on Dark Shadows and MIB41s part.

1) Gene never wanted to split KISS

2) Paul may have maintained the band in the 80s, but for guys like
me it was Gene's mere presence over Paul's that kept me interested...
so hit singles are not "everything"... and, to repeat, Vinnie co-wote
two of KISS' most revered songs during that period... and one of them
was a big single that Paul sang.

3) Ace may have "packed his toys" but Peter did NOT... he was fired
because he was so useless.

4) What KISS did with Bruce being seen as "much better" is
as Twiki said, an opinion. The 2 Vinnie albums are what brought
KISS into 80s metal/hard rock and the remaining Bruce albums
are virtually ignored comparitively in today's KISS sets comapred
to the Vinnie material ... LIU, ILIL and UNHOLY (which Bruce played on
but did not write... Bruce actually had NO successful KISS song cowrites).

[Dark Shadow]

huedell - It seems the misconceptions are all yours.

• 1. I never stated or inferred that Gene wanted to "split KISS", I merely remarked about the fact that Paul was focused in on the band in the 80's while Gene's mind was elsewhere, a fact that Gene readily admits to. Whether one personally likes Gene or Paul more than the other is completely irrelevant to what occurred.

• 2. Like it or not, the music industry is a business, and businesses are defined by their monetary success. Therefore, hits, album sales & concert attendance revenue are ALL that matters when measuring success. What is “revered” by the fan base does not translate into what creates financial success. Just because I revere Detroit Rock City more than I do Beth does not mean that Beth was less successful than DRC.

• 3. Interesting, did I specify that it was Peter who packed up his toys?

• 4. The charting stats I provided are factual and are taken directly from historical data, and I certainly didn’t make up the RIAA certifications or the number of shows that were performed. KISS was more financially successful in the 80’s after Vinnie left than they were when he was in the band. Not my opinion, historical fact.
  
  Also, I think you may have overlooked the fact that Heaven’s On Fire has been played as much as or more than Unholy. And your claim that the "remaining Bruce" albums are ignored in today's KISS sets is factually incorrect. Crazy Crazy Nights & God Gave R&R To You ll have been staples on the two most recent tours, where as Unholy hasn't been played live since 2004.

• FYI: Creatures is one of my top 3 all time fave albums & tours, however, I try not to let my personal opinion cloud the facts behind the financial success of that album or tour.
  
  Below are the actual chart numbers for the relevant 80's albums & their hit singles:
  
  Creatures of the Night LP #45 / I Love It Loud #22
  Lick It Up LP #24 / Lick It Up (single) #66
  Animalize LP #19 / Heaven's On Fire #11
  Asylum LP #20 / Tears Are Falling #20
  Crazy Nights LP #18 / Crazy Crazy Nights #37, Reason To Live #34
  Hot In The Shade LP #29 / Hide Your Heart #22, Forever #8, Rise To It #40

[Dark Shadow]

Twiki -

Vinnie single handedly saved an iconic band, yet can't create any semblance of success for himself?

There's a reason the press always links Vincent to KISS when reporting a story about him (even though he was in the band for less than 1.5 years and has been out of it for 27 years). It's because they can't "tie" him to anything else that the vast majority of people would recognize.

It's perfectly OK to support somebody you admire, even if it's from an emotional standpoint. However, lashing out at people who present facts will never change those facts.

[huedell]

huedell - It seems the misconceptions are all yours.
[LIST]1. I never stated or inferred that Gene wanted to "split KISS".

"All" mine?

GONG!

MIB was the one that mentioned "split" and I included him in my
original "post challenge"... I could address all the inaccuracies
that I see in your latest post (and there are many... almost as many as you
have points trying to be made)... and maybe I WILL... tomorrow.

But right out of the gate you struck a strike, so... that's it for now
at 2:26 am.

[huedell]

It's perfectly OK to support somebody you admire, even if it's from an emotional standpoint. However, lashing out at people who present facts will never change those facts.

Your "facts" are one-dimensional numbers, sterile in the "3-D' history
and BUSINESS SUCCESS of KISS... but more on that tomorrow.

[Dark Shadow]

... I could address all the inaccuracies
that I see in your latest post (and there are many... almost as many as you
have points trying to be made)... and maybe I WILL... tomorrow.

Your "facts" are one-dimensional numbers, sterile in the "3-D' history
and BUSINESS SUCCESS of KISS... but more on that tomorrow.

Before you go on an all-out-assault on my rebuttals, and cloud the issue any further, I would really appreciate it if you could simply "make your case" and address the original point that I made. We can address my other "inaccuracies", if you like, after we resolve the original dispute. The statement which you (and Twiki) initially took issue with is as follows:

"Kiss did much better in album sales & concert attendance between Mid 1984 - late 1990 (with Bruce Kulick on board):"

I backed that statement up with historical attendance records, album chart records, single chart records and album certifications made by the RIAA. Please keep in mind that my statement is strictly in regard to the financial successes incurred. Also keep in mind that my statement does not infer or make any claims of artistic superiority, nor does it speculate on core fan base preferences.

Please explain how my statement is incorrect and please explain exactly how this is personal opinion vs. historical fact.
_______________________________________

For your convenience, a summary of the facts I presented previously:

Creatures of the Night*, Gold LP #45 / I Love It Loud #22 / 56 Shows Performed
Lick It Up, Platinum LP #24 / Lick It Up (single) #66 / 94 Shows Performed
Animalize, Platinum LP #19 / Heaven's On Fire #11 / 119 Shows Performed
Asylum, Gold LP #20 / Tears Are Falling #20 / 91 Shows Performed
Crazy Nights, Platinum LP #18 / Crazy Crazy Nights #37, Reason To Live #34 / 129 Shows Performed
Hot In The Shade**, Gold LP #29 / Hide Your Heart #22, Forever #8, Rise To It #40 / 123 Shows Performed

*Please note that it took nearly 12 years for CON to earn Gold status. Status was awarded in 5/94. All other certifications mentioned above were earned within a few weeks or months of the original release date.

**The Gold status on HITS is disputed, it is believed that the album reached Platinum status but has yet to be certified.

[CrimsonGhost]

I'd like to see the stats on Vinnie's dog containers.