Global warming my butt...

[SUP-Ronin]

People that trust what they're told over doing the research themselves will believe anything.

I don't belive Hec intended to start anything with this thread, but I do believe it's gonna DIE.

[DocDrako]

Here in Southern California it's been pretty cold too, but it reminds me of Reno so that's okay. I love the cold weather. I wish we would get some snow but that doesn't happen here.

[david_b]

NOT to discuss the scientific merits, but the only reason this subject reached national attention was because it WAS politically-based, sorry to say. And it was used as a political hot-button to polarize the parties.

It didn't appear on ANYONE's radar nationally until after former President Bush refused to sign the Kyoto Agreement, as did most countries. There is no way to argue that. Former President Clinton also refused to sign a few years earlier, but no attention was given then...

Again, not discussing the scientific merits, not saying anyone's right or wrong ~ Just reminding what the actual timeline of national concern.

[Sideshow Spock]

It didn't appear on ANYONE's radar nationally until after former President Bush refused to sign the Kyoto Agreement, as did most countries.

Major (problematic) parts of the world such as Africa and much of Asia did not sign initially. They have since ratified. I believe the US is the only country still outstanding.

There is no way to argue that. Former President Clinton also refused to sign a few years earlier, but no attention was given then...

Completely untrue. VP Gore actually negotiated much of the Kyoto protocol in 1997 with Clinton's full support, but the republican senate refused to ratify it.

[david_b]

Major (problematic) parts of the world such as Africa and much of Asia did not sign initially. They have since ratified. I believe the US is the only country still outstanding.

Completely untrue. VP Gore actually negotiated much of the Kyoto protocol in 1997 with Clinton's full support, but the republican senate refused to ratify it.

No, there's still other countries that haven't signed, not sure about China because they was a major issue for tracking emission standards.

As for the Republican Senate's refusal, I heard different, but I'll take your word for it.

Still, the point is.....: It didn't come to national attention until 2001, after 8 years of another administration.

david_b

[Brazoo]

Not exactly, this planet has warming and cooling. The planet's climate changes all the time. We really can't change that and science is no where near advanced enough to figure out the mechanics of it (something that they don't really want to admit most of the time).

All the climate science (whether it strives to be accurate or not and we now know some don't strive for accuracy but for a specific conclusion because that is where the grant money is) is based on less than 200 years of tracking and a lot of that tracking is inaccurate to begin with due to the shortcomings of methods of the past.

There are limited means of projecting climate history accurately beyond that. Looking at the rings in trees gives some information. Taking C02 readings from deep inside glaciers is another. Neither is enough to give a comprehensive enough view of past climate ages in relation to the climate we have now.

Such shortcomings in tracking the past climate changes and the varying declarations of the "effects" of global warming (some scientists *do* say that it means more extreme cold and hot weather but others say it means more overall hot weather. I have seen the "symptoms" shift through the years) just contribute to people's "common sense" alarms about some of this stuff.

Yeah - I think the arguments get caught up in the smaller projections of symptoms and weather patterns - and I think that's where a lot of the confusion is coming from. We're not great at predicting weather patterns because it's very complex.

The bottom line stuff - like satellite measurements of global temperatures and polar ice cap and glacier melting makes global warming pretty clear cut to me.

Again - I'm not aware of the full blown "global warming is not happening" argument some of you guys are making. The debate I'm aware of is more about how bad it's going to be and how much man-made CO2s contribute to it.

[rche]

and....

ZAM - it got cold in central TX too.
Was riding my bike on turkey day afternoon.
Started out the spin in 75 degree weather. When I came to my last mile (usually a bit of a mental relaxing point) the wind whipped up all the fallen leaves into a little funnel and the temp dropped dramatically. By the time I got back to the house, the thermometer was reading 60.

This morning's ride was a bit more chilly. Started the day off in the upper 30's . Woo Hoo!! Time to go chop some wood up for the woodstove!

[Sideshow Spock]

No, there's still other countries that haven't signed, not sure about China because they was a major issue for tracking emission standards.

China ratified in 2002.

List of Kyoto Protocol signatories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's a pretty green map. I only see one big red country

As for the Republican Senate's refusal, I heard different, but I'll take your word for it.

Taking my word isn't necessary. Very simple to find the facts. Here's a good article from 2005:

Clinton Blasts Bush On Kyoto Pact - CBS News

[Werewolf]

Hec started a light hearted thread to joke about the cold and depressing enough it had to deteriorate into a political head butting match. It's a holiday weekend. It would be nice if both sides could just let it go it before the mods have to step in and lock it.

Anyhow, have a great weekend everyone and good luck at the sales.

[Sideshow Spock]

Light-hearted or not, if you title something with a controversial topic (even in jest), it's liable to get argued about in a forum of diverse adults. A better suggestion might have been, "Baby, it's cold outside!"

[johnmiic]

In my haste to refute Rich, I forgot most members will not resume the lightheartedness of a thread but more often will take sides and the effect snowballs to the point where a thread is poisoned.

What angers me as much as politics is for someone to state something as if they had all the answers, to presume they know better than educated people who are scientists, when it's really a stab at people who believe the opposite is or may be true. To just come out and say: it's false-it was proven false-I don't have to explain why because it's political-do not question me; that just makes it unbearable for me to sit still in my chair without a response.

It's like every time someone opens with, "I don't want to offend you, but...", and usually they do.

I'll say it one time. READ MY LIPS: There is no such thing as global warming! I won't go into my reasons because it would open up a can of political worms. It's already been proven that the "scientists" made up statistics about it.

Rich

[Hector]

For global warming whether it get's warm or cool I don't care because i'll be dead by then.

Let future generations worry about it.

In a few billion years the sun is going to blow up and destroy the earth

That don't mean we should start thinking about ways to prevent it

[Hector]

It seems like you guys are making this thread something it wasn't.

Correct.

My intent as the thread starter was not to get political...my intent was pure satire.

I'm just cold...dammit...

[Hector]

Hec started a light hearted thread to joke about the cold and depressing enough it had to deteriorate into a political head butting match. It's a holiday weekend. It would be nice if both sides could just let it go it before the mods have to step in and lock it.

Anyhow, have a great weekend everyone and good luck at the sales.

Exactly.



Let's get in the spirit of ....not

[Hector]

Light-hearted or not, if you title something with a controversial topic (even in jest), it's liable to get argued about in a forum of diverse adults. A better suggestion might have been, "Baby, it's cold outside!"

But it was funnier the way I titled it...