Conspiracy Theories?

[sauce]

9/11, even if I let a LOT go (hijackers really did take over planes, hijacker's passport really did survive the crash, black boxes really were not found, twin towers really did fall without "help", building 7 really did fall because of debris from twin towers, BBC News really did not know building 7 would fall when they reported it fallen while it was still standing in the background, and more) . . . I am STILL left in total disbelief that the alleged plane that struck the Pentagon was the FIRST airplane in aviation history to "disintegrate upon impact" (that's the OFFICIAL story), leaving not a single shred of metal behind.

There is video evidence. Too bad we only get to see about twenty frames. You can see some white light and something exploding.

[LadyZod]

Having read most major conspiracy authors, and watched more conspiracy shows than anyone in their right mind would ever admit to... I have come to terms with a few things:

1. JFK was killed by one gunman, located on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. Was that gunman Lee Harvey Oswald? I don't know. It could have been. Or it could have been an assassin. All I know is the gunman didn't have to be good. He just had to be lucky. If he was good, he would have delivered the killing shot the first time.

2. David Icke is a loon. Too many soccer balls to the head.

3. William Cooper is the best conspiiracy author of all time. He lived the gimmick, and died the gimmick.

4. Jim Marrs may be onto something, but his credibility is shot. I believe the Bilderberg group is a group of international bankers, politicians, social scientists, and natural scientists that meet for a global congress every year. Are they the king makers? Do they hold influence? Well, ya. But that has more to do with who they are individually more than who they could be as a group.

5. I believe Erich von Däniken's thesis regarding possible influence on this planet from offworld entities being recorded by early man as encounters with gods.

6. I do not believe the Passover Plot, but find it hard to argue against the theories presented in Holy Blood Boly Grail, and it does not shake my faith in the least.

7. 9/11 was not planned by our government. 9/11 caught us with our pants down. Unlike the bombing at Pearl Harbor (which has been recorded as being known about beforehand) to say that our government had advance knowledge is giving them entirely too much credit. Either the Bush administration was the smartest, most secured well oil machine ever to grace Washington DC with the implementation of 9/11, or it was the most assbackwards, clumsy, easily amused bunch of frat boys to ever hold the office. You can't have it both ways. They didn't plan 9/11. Their screw-ups following it and into the following years prooved it.

8. Princess Diana died because the driver was bad at driving fast. No conspiracy.

9. RFK was killed by a manchurian candidate. John Lennon was not.

10. The Freemasons are an adult frat. Could it be a recruiting ground for a larger group that controls goverments from the shadows? Sure. If your lodge is in Alexandria, VA and your fellow members include senators, congressmen and supreme court justices. If your lodge is in Peoria? Ya, good luck. I'm sure Artie, the owner of Artie's Used Cars and Alpacas will soon be the CEO of AIG. (He might though. Kiss up to him. Tell him I said hi.)

11. Tupac is dead. Michael Jackson is dead. Elvis is dead (if he wasn't when it was announced, he's dead now.)

12. 2012, the Apocalypse foretold in The Book of the Revelation of John, Gotterdammerung (Ragnarok), pretty much all end world prophesies: Overblown. I think of The Gods Must Be Crazy. A freakin' coke bottle was seen as a mystical gift from the gods. Show an rural peasant video footage of earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, the atomic bomb... and how would you imagine they would describe what they have seen? Imagine sages of epochs past seeing these images in dreams and writing them down using the language at their disposal. An Atomic Bomb? Lighting from above. The utter destruction seen after Katrina? The Black Plague with bodies crowding streets... I'm just saying perhaps it's true, but we're just better prepared for it. 2012? It's already known that there will be an astrological event, with the aligning of the planets in our solar system. First time in how many years? Oh ya, first time since the day the Mayan Calendar started. So, ya. That's what they are telling us, in the language at their disposal.

Note: Not only have I read these books... I own them. Sad, I know.

[Brazoo]

9/11, even if I let a LOT go (hijackers really did take over planes, hijacker's passport really did survive the crash, black boxes really were not found, twin towers really did fall without "help", building 7 really did fall because of debris from twin towers, BBC News really did not know building 7 would fall when they reported it fallen while it was still standing in the background, and more) . . . I am STILL left in total disbelief that the alleged plane that struck the Pentagon was the FIRST airplane in aviation history to "disintegrate upon impact" (that's the OFFICIAL story), leaving not a single shred of metal behind.

There is video evidence. Too bad we only get to see about twenty frames. You can see some white light and something exploding.

I always thought that conspiracy theorists claimed that United Flight 93 was the plane that the government said disintegrated - not plane that hit the Pentagon. I think I remember that "Loose Change" claimed the debris was planted.

What "official story" are they sourcing anyway? The 9/11 commission Report doesn't talk about planes disintegrating at all.

[SlipperyLilSuckers]

Watch

That pretty much says it all for me...

Interesting thread John.

And thanks for this link Botzwana, I found it very interesting.

[Megotu]

One of the issues of Holocaust denial, unrelated to the insult to millions of murder victims, is its deep ties to Neo-Nazism.

[txteach]

This thread has turned interesting. Never heard the conspiracy theory that Bryan brought up about the plane desintegrating. I'm real happy everyone has been very civil about their comments.

[Mod Style]

Don't forget the conspiracy to frame O.J.!

[Sideshow Spock]

I don't believe any of them. Too many shows have been either on History Channel or National Geographic that have shot most of these down.

Agreed. There was an excellent one a couple years ago that detailed the Kennedy assassination and broke down all the most popular "myths" of the various conspiracy theories. In the end the facts supported Oswald acting alone.

Some of the other wackadoo BS like the moon/holocaust stuff isn't even worth discussion.

[Sowth]

Once you've worked in or with Government you quickly come to realise that they are unable to keep Judy from Reception's surprise birthday cake a secret, let alone conspiracies of the magnitude mentioned here.

[Mikey]

If there were any US Government conspiracies they would have most definitely happened during the Nixon administation.
This would put the moon landing and the end of the Vietnam war in that time frame.

I 98% believe the US did go to the moon, but I still have 2% doubts.
It would be very easy to fake it back then, and it's not something the Nixon administration would even think twice about doing.

For Vietnam ... I'll bet a lot of underhanded stuff happen and the general public may never find out all of it.

[Toy Talk]

Did you watch the entire thing? Do some more research on it.

I watched the entire video. I also saw my wife's grandmother's casket get lowered into one of these grave liners just a couple of months ago. The video gives absolutely no proof, only skeptical opinions and outlandish conspiracies. I have seen the grave liners in use first hand.
Like so many conspiracies, people who are prone to believing in them take a simple fact out of context and then add their own plausible, yet believable, ideas.
Much like the alien spacecraft seen over Area 51 20 years ago. Amazingly drawings and pictures of what people saw look amazingly similar to the Stealth fighter and bombers of today.
Do conspiracies exits? Absolutely! Are there aliens? Most likely. As a race we would be pompous and self-centered to believe that in all the universe we are the only intelligent race. Did we land on the moon? Yes! And for the love of God please let that one rest, because the conspiracy makes no sense. Was Marilyn Monroe murdered by the mafia? Possibly, who cares! Was JFK shot by more than one person? Very likely, and it may have very well been a planned hit.
Conspiracies exist, and many of them for a reason. Think about the fallout if full disclosure were the norm for governments around the world. Do you really want to know if our planet is at risk of alien invasion? How safe would you feel if the public knew how the mafia could reach out and kill someone as high-up as the President?
Some truths are hidden in order to keep the piece. While in the military I was privy to many bits of information that before had been unknown to me; information that the general population of the world does not know. I can honestly say that for years I had trouble sleeping as a result of knowing "what is really going on". Today I live blissfully happy in a self-indulged world of information isolation. What I don't know, what I have no business needing to know, has no affect on my family or me.

[Doc]

Conspiracy theories? Give me a break.

I for one welcome our alien overlords. Hail Ming!

[Mikey]

Another good semi conspiracy theory is the whole Anglosphere debate.

A lot of countries, especially France think the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada and Australia have some sort of tag team world domination pact.

I kid you not

[darklord1967]

UFOs: Most (perhaps 95%) of the flying discs and strange lights that have been observed in our skies are military experimental craft, natural phenomena, or too much booze/ narcotics. But a tiny percentage of these things are in fact extraterrestrial in nature, and they are functioning with the knowledge and sanction of the government. These visitors to our planet have been coming here for several thousand years. Furthermore, even some of the experimental military flying disc craft that have been developed by the US military (beginning around the close of WWII) are attempted reversed-engineered projects from extraterrestrial technology. The drawback is that current human science has a very limited understanding of electro-magnetics and their application to space-time propulsion principles. Observers of genuine extra terrestrial craft report craft that appear to vanish in the blink of an eye and re-appear elsewhere in the sky (like mini "warp jumps").

Most UFO sightings (strange objects or lights that hover or race across the sky) do NOT report this behavior of the observed craft. So I have a tendency to believe that those are probably NOT extraterrestrial in nature.

OJ Simpson Trial: Orenthal James Simpson murdered Nicole Brown on her own doorstep after ringing her doorbell, hiding off to the side, and then surprise ambushing her when she answered the door. He knocked her to the ground, and she fell over face-first. Simpson then stood over her, reached down, grabbed her by the hair and pulled her head backward. With a large knife, he slit her throat. As OJ began to remove the gloves he wore (so as not to be caught with any incriminating evidence), he was suddenly surprised by an unexpected arrival. A hapless waiter (and friend of Nicole's) Ron Goldman arrived at her residence to return eye glasses that she had left earlier that day at Mezzaluna Restaurant (where he worked). As Goldman walked in on the gruesome murder in progress, he shouted "Hey, hey, hey!!!!", to scare away the attacker... but it did not work. And Simpson was forced to launch upon him with a furious knife attack, stabbing repeatedly as he went. Working with an un-gloved hand, Simpson caught a nasty gash on the top of his finger from Goldman who fought furiously for his life. But the multiple stab wounds proved to be too much for the young waiter. With Goldman dead, a highly agitated Simpson departed the crime scene, forgetting that he was able to dispose of only one of the gloves he was wearing. As he left, the cut on his hand deposited 3 or 4 drops of blood on Nicole's front walkway. In the end, the prosecution (headed up by Marcia Clark and Christopher Darden) botched many aspects of the case (proper presentation of evidence in court so that the average person could understand it, and effective summation, etc.).


The assassination of John F. Kennedy: November 22, 1963. Dallas Texas. Three shots fired from the sixth floor window of a book depository building... using a bolt-action Italian-made Manliker Carcano rifle with a defective scope... strike the presidential motorcade killing President John F Kennedy... and the purported "assassin" , one Lee Harvey Oswald, was considered to have "maggots in his drawers" by his Civil Air Patrol Marine buddies (meaning he was a lousy marksman). Hmmmm...

Official Warren Commission Scenario:

The first (supposedly best-aimed) shot misses the motorcade completely
The second shot strikes JFK in the upper back and comes out his throat (?) striking Governor Connelly (sitting in front of the President) numerous times.
The third shot strikes Kennedy, blowing OUT a full two thirds of the back of his cranium.

Wait. He is shot from behind... and the BACK of his head blows out??? Hmmm...

Several witnesses testified that shots two and three came virtually "... on top of each other..."

So that means that the most rushed (least aimed) rifle shot is the one that hits the president in the head???

Naaah!!!!!!!! I'm sorry. That dog don't hunt!!!

51 witnesses in Dealy Plaza, that day, identified the area known as "the grassy knoll", behind a picket fence (in front of and to the right of the presidential motorcade) , as the origin of at least one of the gun shots. This is the gun blast that blew Kennedy's brains out of the back of his head. Impossible if he were shot from behind.

Immediately after the fatal head shot, Dallas PD and dozens of witnesses ran toward the picket fence to catch a glimpse of the killer. NONE of these people were interviewed or were asked to testify before the Warren Commission investigation of the assassination.

Louisianna District Attorney Jim Garrison put it best in his summation at the trial of (accused JFK assassination conspirator) Claw Shaw: "President Kennedy was murdered by a conspiracy that was planned in advance at the highest levels of our government, and it was carried out by fanatical and diciplined cold-warriors in the pentagon and CIA's covert-operations aparatus."


September 11th, 2001. US attacked : At least 3 airplanes were hijacked by terrorists. Two of them destroyed the World Trade Center towers in NYC. United Flight 93 was SHOT DOWN (not crashed) over Shanksville Pennsylannia. And something did hit the Pentagon building in Washington DC. I'm just not sure it was a commercial plane. I keep asking if it was a plane, then why does all the footage at the Pentagon disaster NOT show wings or a fuselage among the wreckage? And why did the government confiscate all of the video surveillance footage showing the "plane" that struck the pentagon?

Definitely something weird there.

[Brazoo]

Moon Landing - There are a lot of really good sources for debunking the arguments in this one, but the three main issues for me are:

Money - How did the US launder billions upon billions of dollars successfully through multiple agencies and administrations for all those years and never get caught or even raise suspicion? There are thousands of low-level clearance workers, accountants, contractors, suppliers who would ALL have to be in on the conspiracy to make that work. I just don't think that's plausible.

Lots of stuff was left there - This site lists 101 things left behind on the moon from the Apollo 11 mission alone: Artifact List

Even if they found a way to get flags, blast marks from the modulars, cameras and junk up there, how did they fake the footprints? A Japanese probe actually photographically confirmed the footprints and other stuff in 2008 by taking really high res images of the Apollo 11 site.

Other Countries - Russia had (and still has) the ability and motive to debunk the Apollo missions if they were faked.

Australians were actually responsible for receiving and broadcasting the radio transmissions between the moon and NASA.

International space agencies, Japan, ESA, China and India have the technology to send probes to the moon, and in all likelihood a private company will send a probe to the moon in the near future through a project like the Google Lunar X prize. The evidence will be examined up close and soon - and I don't see the US panicking at all - in fact they just pulled tons of cash from NASA.