Swat Raid on Missouri family home

[Joe90]

Dealers house no scales? No guns? No cash?

That=no dealer.

Depends how you spin it...

Dealers house no scales? No guns? No cash?

That=the dealer got tipped off and cleared the premises.

[Zemo]

I'm not trying to be a jerk...but you're jumping to conclusions regarding
that they definitely weren't dealers aren't you?

I agree about the botch up with shots fired being shady, but just because they were sloppy doesn't make them scam artists all of the sudden.

I'd like to hear more info.

I don't think they did anything shady, except maybe embellish on the report. I think they had bad info and probably didn't check it out as thoroughly as they should have, before going in, guns firing.

But guns and cash are something that dealers, that would rate this type of raid, always have.

[Zemo]

Depends how you spin it...

Dealers house no scales? No guns? No cash?

That=the dealer got tipped off and cleared the premises.

That's possible.

[huedell]

Glad to see i wasn't the only one who felt that way guys

"Dogs and kids in the line of fire?"...are you kidding?
Of course there'll be an outcry on the surface.
People love their "Dogs and kids". That's understandable.

But there's a lot more than that here to observe, discuss and debate
in order to see what's what.

I think its unfair to say the ones looking for such deeper stuff are
unsympathetic to innocent dogs/kids getting involved in this scenario.
It's just that you're in for a penny, and you're in for a pound with criminal
activity and the like.

But bad stuff happens. That's life.... and that's the price we
pay not to live in a society where anarchy rules.

And I'd also like to think that things like thise are handled professionally in
light of obvious mistakes....and that this isn't some threatening
government agenda to make us into slaves prone to nightly brutal
uncalled for raids, or whatever is being implied by debaters on the other side here.

[SlipperyLilSuckers]

>But does it justify cruelty to animals?

Dog=threat. Even if it's currently passive, there's no way to know if it's been trained to attack on command.... or some othe cue. It's possible for such an animal to turn in an instant. SOP would be to take it out/incapacitate it.

Don C.

I repeat: TRANQUILISERS = SOP here. (for dogs).

[toys2cool]

That doesn't sound like a screw up that somebody wants to go away? Dealers house no scales? No guns? No cash?

That=no dealer.

definitely

[Joe90]

I repeat: TRANQUILISERS = SOP here. (for dogs).

Tranquilizers are relatively slow acting and if a drug house did have dogs specifically as attack animals that would put Officers at risk in a legitimate raid. Tazers would be more appropriate because they are instantaneous, but then you have issues of extra bodies in a confined space compounding the noise and confusion.

What if there were gun toting bad guys in a back room, prepared to open fire on the first Cop who appears in the doorway, and that Cop is a guy carrying a tranq gun, or a tazer?

Go back and look at the video. Is it possible that the dogs were at the door, but were scared off by the gunshots? The argument that the dogs were chased into a back room by some Gung Ho Cop, and only turned and attacked when they were cornered could be easily be stated. Poor dogs, to have that happen to them.

But the equally valid possibility is a Cop is busy clearing the back of the house. He's a regular guy, with a wife and kids, who is so pumped up on adrenalin that the pucker factor is 110%. He enters a room where the family pet is in Fight Mode because it has nowhere to go. The dog charges and the Cop reacts with deadly force to a hostile dog.

The issue here isn't the faulty SOP, it's the intelligence reports.

In my home town there was a Grow-Op. The dealers hired a family to come and "House Sit" with their kids playing in the yard, so that it would appear to be a legit residence. The Cops raided it. The "Green Team" had good intelligence and luckily no shots needed to be fired. The parents were charged with putting their children at risk.

It's possible that Whitworth is innocent of everything except smoking a little boo. It could be just as possible that Whitworth placed his children and family pets at risk by engaging in illegal activities, and got lucky and moved his stuff. We'll never know.

[samurainoir]

Depends how you spin it...

Dealers house no scales? No guns? No cash?

That=the dealer got tipped off and cleared the premises.

That makes no sense to me. If they go to all that trouble to clean up, why get sloppy with weed and a bong?

[Joe90]

That makes no sense to me. If they go to all that trouble to clean up, why get sloppy with weed and a bong?

Some people going on vacation are so preoccupied with passports and traveler's cheques that they forget their toothbrush. Happens all the time.

Especially if you're smoking boo... "Honey! Where'd that pesky bong go?"

And "cleaning up" probably means throwing the evidence that would lead to a felony in a bag and bolting. Who's going to take the time to fret over the misdemeanor stuff? A bong and a bag of shake? That's not sloppy, that's called prioritizing.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

Tasering a dog would probably kill it. And tranqilizer guns are a whole other issue, requiring a lot of specialized training. SWAT guys are the police version of search and destroy; they're called in when things have already turned bad, and they're not trained to mess around.

Don C.

[Joe90]

Hmmmm.... Tasering a dog would probably kill it.

You make a good point, considering how many fully grown adults have died as a result of being tased...

Taser Mortalities

[samurainoir]

Some people going on vacation are so preoccupied with passports and traveler's cheques that they forget their toothbrush. Happens all the time.

Especially if you're smoking boo... "Honey! Where'd that pesky bong go?"

And "cleaning up" probably means throwing the evidence that would lead to a felony in a bag and bolting. Who's going to take the time to fret over the misdemeanor stuff? A bong and a bag of shake? That's not sloppy, that's called prioritizing.

Now you're really reaching.

I could say the real drug dealers came and planted the weed to frame this family.

We'd both be trying to come up with stories to rationalize what happened, purely based on speculation and our own flights of fancy. At this point i'm thinking that's a pretty pointless excercise.

[Bill]

All charges dropped? Sounds more like somebody flipped.
Unless you're dealing in bails of weed the police have bigger concerns.
Some stories just don't get told.

[Joe90]

Now you're really reaching.

I could say the real drug dealers came and planted the weed to frame this family.

We'd both be trying to come up with stories to rationalize what happened, purely based on speculation and our own flights of fancy. At this point i'm thinking that's a pretty pointless excercise.

You think I'm engaging in flights of fancy? Is that like engaging in hypothetical arguments?

Actually, I was injecting a bit of "anything's possible" levity into my response to you. I see now that you obviously weren't aware of that. Your initial post to me when you came up with the hypothetical "it makes no sense" argument was actually your serious response to my humourous (but equally plausible) "Depends how you spin it..." response to Zemo's post. Go back and read it. Nobody here knows anything for sure, and I've been quite aware of that right from the beginning.

Sorry if you missed that. I'll try to express sardonic humour with a little less subtlety in the future.

[ctc]

>Some stories just don't get told.

That’s always the frustrating thing for me.... that you never get any closure form the news; just a parade of “Looky here! Now, here! Now HERE!!!” For a case like this there’s SO MUCH that could be going on....

>All charges dropped? Sounds more like somebody flipped. Or maybe these weren’t the folks they expected. Or someone gave ‘em bad tips....

Yeah; kinda like that.

>Unless you're dealing in bails of weed the police have bigger concerns.

....and they don’t send the Tac Team for the small stuff. Unless they REALLY hate you. Obviously they were expecting SOMETHING.

>TRANQUILISERS = SOP here.

Tranq’s are pretty sloppy all around. Their effectiveness is based on what you put in it, and you’ve got to measure the dosage really carefully. Dosage is based on mass; which is tough to predict ahead of time. (How big a beastie are we gonna find?) And that doesn’t take the constitution of the specific critter into account. Mix it wrong, and it’ll have no effect, or kill the target. (Tranquilizers and anaesthetics are usually watered down poisons. Tricky stuff, which is why you need a specially trained person to put you under during an operation.) And if it DOES work, it takes between 2 and 10 minutes. That’s longer than most house clearings.

Dogs are tough to deal with, since they do one of two things when scared: they panic and run, or they freak out and attack anything moving. If they survive a tranq, taser or pepperspray they could still pose a threat. Even a small dog can be a problem. (Tripping over a chihuahua during the charge could get you killed.) Sad to say, but I probably would have shot the dog myself. (I would have been quicker about it though.)

Don C.