Scalper/Dealer Difference?

[TrueDave]

We just had opening day here ( why no Baseball Smiley!0 and for years nobody actually in Cincinati can get tickets cause they get bought up by internet businessmenm then resold back to the local fans.

I quit going because i realized one day I was watching millionares walk around on astroturf and started then about Golf and never went back.

It seems like they're are more scalpers these days than ever. On the toy front you see many guys hoarde a lot of the newer toy lines and sell them at inflated prices when they sell out. When it comes to vintage toys, I think a lot of guys don't really know what they're worth so put a hefty tag on them and hope for the best. The Fighting Furies Ghost of Cap'n Kidd up on Ebay for £600 is a good example.

What really gets me are the internet ticket scalpers, they really get my goat. They are the real reason why most big concerts sell out. Moments afterwards, you'll see a slew of overpriced tickets on Ebay, attempting to fleece the fans. I really do wish Ebay would clamp down on these sales and limit sellers to only selling the tickets at face value. I won't hold my breath though.

[Surfsup]

It seems like they're are more scalpers these days than ever. On the toy front you see many guys hoarde a lot of the newer toy lines and sell them at inflated prices when they sell out. When it comes to vintage toys, I think a lot of guys don't really know what they're worth so put a hefty tag on them and hope for the best. The Fighting Furies Ghost of Cap'n Kidd up on Ebay for £600 is a good example.

What really gets me are the internet ticket scalpers, they really get my goat. They are the real reason why most big concerts sell out. Moments afterwards, you'll see a slew of overpriced tickets on Ebay, attempting to fleece the fans. I really do wish Ebay would clamp down on these sales and limit sellers to only selling the tickets at face value. I won't hold my breath though.

[jds1911a1]

Yeah - but if we were talking about almost anything other than collectables this practice would be illegal - no? It creates an underground to some degree.

reselling is only prohibitted for specific items (like event tickets and even then there are exceptions for "ticket brokers" who are in reality licensed scalpers) or items that are prohibitted outright (such as illegally imported cuban cigars) or when the initial sale was regulated (which is also why reslleing prescription drugs, alchohol, or cigarettes is illegal)

If there was rationing in place like ww2 then the reselling at inflated price would be illegal

I feel the same way about toy scalping but I try to be level headed and avoid overly inflamatory terms

[ctc]

>scalping manipulates the supply and demand

Yeah. I think the best way to look at this is that scalpers are very short-term: they typically hawk stuff like tickets, relying on immediacy to boost price. Dealers are more long term; same principle but they can sit on stuff longer. In both cases there's a risk of overinflated prices, for the seller AND the buyer. With collectibles it's more entrenched, and accepted. The value of MOST collectibles is inflated, but certain items hold value 'cos there's a very limited supply and commensurate demand. A lot burn hot for a while, and then disappear. ("Death of Superman" anyone? Anyone....?) Like I was saying; there are enough winners to encourage the rest.

Don C.

[Brazoo]

I do understand your point but also think it is a valid point to say that scalpers do provide a service. I think where it leaves a bad taste in most people's mouths is that it takes an item that would otherwise sell to someone at a retail price and instead sell at a price that is well inflated.

If you take the emotional aspect out of it, there is nothing more to it than supply and demand. There are fewer products available than the market demands. Scalpers take advantage of the situation by removing some of the supply that may be available at retail prices and meeting the demand at whatever price it will be sold at (i.e. the highest bidder). Is it right? No. Does it provide a service....I guess it does.

Aren't the individuals who decide to purchase the items at the inflated prices, just as much to blame as the scalpers. It takes two right? If the general population simply refuses to buy the items at inflated prices, the demand side goes away and will drive the price down or discourage scalpers from the practice in the first place.

What I'm arguing is that scalping is not governed purely by supply and demand, because scalping manipulates the supply and demand.

Asking $1,000,000 for something that cost 10¢ is not scalping. It might be crazy, or bad business, but it's not scalping.

[TrueDave]

Adam West,

Seriously your buddy had 40 grand of this stuff?

I know a guy i call Star Wars Steve that has hundreds of thousands but he has never sold a thing, doesnt open , collector only.

But your friend was obviously speculating if he had 20 of the guy.

I remember locally you could never get the reds and the Pete Rose Johhny Bench pack was nonexistant.

Still what if he thought it was 1975 and he was stocking up on carded Megos?

I wouldnt even buy a carded original Captain Action Spiderman these days because of teh reissues. I got hit by that with Aurora models reissues.

Dealers and scalpers seem to have different personality types too in my in person experience.

I used to make good profit in the mid to late 1980s selling SW stuff from the midwest to folks on the west coat.

Now everybody thinks a toy is a collectable and you cant pick up a spiderman Happy meal toy at a flea market without hearing a big price and "collectors item"

[Adam West]

I respectfully disagree that scalpers are providing a service. They're taking products out of the market and holding them, creating a new market that wouldn't exist otherwise. Scalping is a racket - it artificially drives prices up and creates a black market.

I do understand your point but also think it is a valid point to say that scalpers do provide a service. I think where it leaves a bad taste in most people's mouths is that it takes an item that would otherwise sell to someone at a retail price and instead sell at a price that is well inflated.

If you take the emotional aspect out of it, there is nothing more to it than supply and demand. There are fewer products available than the market demands. Scalpers take advantage of the situation by removing some of the supply that may be available at retail prices and meeting the demand at whatever price it will be sold at (i.e. the highest bidder). Is it right? No. Does it provide a service....I guess it does.

Aren't the individuals who decide to purchase the items at the inflated prices, just as much to blame as the scalpers. It takes two right? If the general population simply refuses to buy the items at inflated prices, the demand side goes away and will drive the price down or discourage scalpers from the practice in the first place.

Ebay is a really good example of supply and demand (especially on hot new products that scalpers buy and flip). Usually the first person to list an item receives the highest price because the supply is low but demand is high. Once more and more people sell, supply increases and the prices start falling and will eventually reach an equilibrium point (where prices will basically buy/sell for roughly the same price). Eventually, the supply will exceed demand and prices will really drop.

Case in point was my neighbor the Starting Lineup hoarder. Like I said, he must have had $30-$40,000 tied up in those figures and he purchased most of them at retail because his sister worked at Wal-Mart (he had thousands of them). A Drew Bledsoe rookie was released one year and the price shot up to $75 or so. My neighbor must have had 20 of them all bought for $6.99. I swear he wouldn't sell me one for $30 and insisted on getting paid book value or having something in trade worth more so he would want two Brett Favre rookies that were worth $75 a piece for one Bledsoe. After trying a few times to be reasonable with him because I was into collecting them at the time; I just figured forget it. Keep all 20 of them because they will bite you in the butt some day. I haven't talked to him in years but I would be willing to bet he still has lots of them and his $40,000 is probably worth $4,000.

I even had lots of them but at least finally got to the point where I decided to part with the figures that really didn't mean much to me...placed an ad in Tuff Stuff and would sell them for a fraction of the book value. Sold almost all of them. I was also glad I didn't bite on the really expensive figures that I wanted. In the last two years I picked up my two favorite pieces that I was unwilling to pay the outrageous prices. 1989 Cal Ripken purchased for around $80 (that one was selling for about $600+) and a 1988 Art Monk for about $45 (that one was near $300)....glad I waited.

[TrueDave]

Man this sounds like my kinda victory! Yes you're a winner! Wait them out!

don't be an emotional shopper!

Also I was surprised how many emotional collectors dump thier stuf. As soon as Simpson was cancelled and the first Mattel Heman smy toy shop was JAMMED with them.

We need to be calm

Scalpers can rot in H for all I care. I will never buy from one. They can sit on their huge pile of whatever and I will never buy. Not until it is LESS than what it came out from the stores.

Example: The WWF Blue Blazer figure came out and was rare. $85 rare. I waited 12 years and Finally have one for $2. Yup...I can wait them out. I have time. So screw you scalpers! I didn't pay your $85! I WON! I got it for $2. YOU LOSE! HAHAHA

[Brazoo]

Black market usually denotes ILLEGAL which ebay or other auction sites is not while seconday market envelopes all sales not by a retailer who purcased the item via the normal manufacturer distibution chanel

Yeah - but if we were talking about almost anything other than collectables this practice would be illegal - no? It creates an underground to some degree.

[Brazoo]

I'm not quite sure if that definition quite "fits" with say, a classic ticket scalper. More often than not, the item is no longer available for the concert or sporting event because it is sold out. Ticket scalpers also can't return tickets after the show can they? So they do share that risk as well.

Yeah - but the show is sold out because of the scalpers! That's the point. If the show sells out they lower their risk.

The normal competitive market depends on supply and demand to set the prices of things. Scalping is a way to take products out of the regular market and manipulate the supply to artificially raise the demand. Scalping takes products from it's regular market (the retail market) and creates a new market based on manipulation.

The after/secondary/collectors market exists after a product is not available any other way. People can try other forms of market manipulation (hoarding or CGC grading for instance - DON'T GET ME STARTED), but it's not really the same as scalping.

[jds1911a1]

Does that mean there is an element of hoarding and storing if you are a dealer? Is Risk a factor in differentiating a scalper or dealer?

I'm not quite sure if that definition quite "fits" with say, a classic ticket scalper. More often than not, the item is no longer available for the concert or sporting event because it is sold out. Ticket scalpers also can't return tickets after the show can they? So they do share that risk as well.

Or is this a case of different market, different terms? If that is the case, the term "scalper" is a floating term depending on the product?

So there are no "Scalpers" in Real Estate, only "Flippers", which doesn't seem to have the same degree of derogatory subtext behind it.

Ticket scalping I leave to others to explain. They at least take some risk that if they are unable to flip the ticket they eat it. my comments are about toy scalpers whio buy the toy at a retail store list on some other venue at an inflated price. they have the option to return unsold prduct for a full refund since stores give you 45-90 days to return unopened product with a receipt

[jds1911a1]

THANK YOU - this is exactly what I was trying to say!

Though using the term "secondary market" may be confusing because I hear people using that to describe the post-retail/collectors market - I would just say it creates a black market.

Black market usually denotes ILLEGAL which ebay or other auction sites is not while seconday market envelopes all sales not by a retailer who purcased the item via the normal manufacturer distibution chanel

[samurainoir]

Scalping only applies to items available from a retail venue, purchased to resell on a secondary market (while the item is available) resold. And the fact that many scalpers can still return said product to the purchasing store for a full refund within 90 days means they have no risk only reward

Does that mean there is an element of hoarding and storing if you are a dealer? Is Risk a factor in differentiating a scalper or dealer?

I'm not quite sure if that definition quite "fits" with say, a classic ticket scalper. More often than not, the item is no longer available for the concert or sporting event because it is sold out. Ticket scalpers also can't return tickets after the show can they? So they do share that risk as well.

Or is this a case of different market, different terms? If that is the case, the term "scalper" is a floating term depending on the product?

So there are no "Scalpers" in Real Estate, only "Flippers", which doesn't seem to have the same degree of derogatory subtext behind it.

[BOTZWANA]

Scalpers can rot in H for all I care. I will never buy from one. They can sit on their huge pile of whatever and I will never buy. Not until it is LESS than what it came out from the stores.

Example: The WWF Blue Blazer figure came out and was rare. $85 rare. I waited 12 years and Finally have one for $2. Yup...I can wait them out. I have time. So screw you scalpers! I didn't pay your $85! I WON! I got it for $2. YOU LOSE! HAHAHA

[TrueDave]

Sometimes i'm glad that I personally collect reproductions and defunct lines, Iusually dont emotionally shop.


If you order it through a distrubutor then fine, like a comic shop. Dealer.

If you bought it from Toys R Us . Scalper.

Again this is for NEW items sold for profit not as a favor. You can collect for yourself but Toys are not a good investment . Yry Gold.

Do you really need more than one are are you just being greedy?