Scalper/Dealer Difference?

[Brazoo]

These definitions obviously apply to new products.

For the secondary market (i.e. collectables, vintage) there is no such thing as 'wholesale' and 'retail'.

Yeah - my definition of the term scalper doesn't apply to someone buying/selling in the secondary market. How does that work?

[Adam West]

I guess to me, and it is a combination of what others have already said. It is someone who jumps on the latest hot item that someone wants....buys as much of it as they can and will sell it for as much as they can until the demand/supply chain equalizes and then they move onto something else.

By contrast and I guess this is my opinion, is a dealer may still try to rip you off but I think they do generally care about the items that they are selling and usually have some knowledge of it.

It's definitely a fine line. I have seen dealers who do jump on the bandwagon and will effectively scalp which is to say jump into buying those zhu-zhu pets when there was a shortage and charging $100+ for a $9 toy.

As Mike said, scalpers do serve a purpose. People might feel like they take advantage of people but most of the items they scalp are not necessities and the scalper is taking a risk. If collectors would simply ignore the scalping prices, much of this would go away.

I have told this story many times before but I had a neighbor who had the largest Starting Lineup Collection I have ever seen. He had 15-20 copies of say a Brett Favre rookie....I would try to trade something I had that he wanted and the prices were about the same but he always wanted something extra. I finally gave up and told him I really enjoyed the hobby but based on his desire of wanting more than a fair trade just decided that it would be best if we just shared new acquistions to our collections and not trade so we could remain friends.

I had moved away right before the Starting Lineup market bottomed out and I can only imagine how much money he had invested in these. He had a sister who worked at Wal-Mart who would pluck all the best pieces for him which is was paying retail for but I know he was paying big bucks for some of the rare pieces. I'm guessing he had $50,000 or more tied up in his collection and I haven't had a chance to talk to him to see if he still owned his collection or what happened. Fortunately, I saw that the bottom was dropping, placed an ad in Tuff Stuff (this was pre Ebay days) and sold all of the lineups that really weren't that important to me and simply took the money and funnelled it into another collection.

[Zemo]

By the definitions described above i'm not a scalper and never was, but I really don't see anything wrong with the practice of it.

The guy is legally beating collectors out of a good score just so he could turn a profit.
To me that sounds like a Capitalist American way to do business.

If all "rare" figures were evenly distributed and there was no competition or favoritism suddenly they wouldn't be rare anymore ... This alone would probably stop a lot of people from collecting.

My view is scalpers are a necessary evil to keep the hobby live and healthy.

I agree. Most people know when their getting scalped. You volunteer for the haircut.

[Brazoo]

I respectfully disagree that scalpers are providing a service. They're taking products out of the market and holding them, creating a new market that wouldn't exist otherwise. Scalping is a racket - it artificially drives prices up and creates a black market.

I personally think collectors are mostly to blame because they see collectibles as investments. They actually get excited when they see prices jump because they feel the 'investments' they made have gone up in value as well. They remember the small percentage of collectables in their collections that actually increase in value short-term, or the even smaller percentage of collectables that continue to increase in value beyond the normal rate of inflation - but generally collectors choose to forget that the majority of all collectibles are decreasing in value.

Anyway - by and large that is why I think scalpers are even tolerated by collectors. They add excitement to the game the way that decreasing your odds adds excitement to gambling because it increases the amount you can win - or something like that.

No disrespect intended, but of course scalpers are not trading in "necessities", if they were they'd be in jail because we have laws against this kind of thing.

The dealer market - or secondary/collectors market exists for collectables that are no longer available. There is no other market for these items. There are no set market prices either - collectables are worth whatever anyone is willing to pay. Making a profit (even an exorbitant one) is not scalping to me as I understand it at all. I don't think there's a moral obligation to regulate the prices of these collectables at all - unless a dealer cares about being competitive or gaining repeat business. Though I guess most of you guys are just using the word "scalper" as an insult for people who are asking too much?

In any case, this is probably a very strange place to say this - but the whole idea of people using collectables as investments is deeply deeply flawed to me.

[ctc]

>I personally think collectors are mostly to blame because they see collectibles as investments.

I agree. It kinda creates it's own separate market too; since it creates a percieved difference between "collectible" and "neat thing that sits on my computer." Then it becomes self-perpetuating.

>the whole idea of people using collectables as investments is deeply deeply flawed to me

....'cos it doesn't work. Any serious price jump is gonna be temporary, and you're very seldom gonna find an object that holds it's value for a decent enough price to make it proffitable. But it's like the lottery: just enough people win to make it seem worthwhile to the majority who don't.

Don C.

[4NDR01D]

Just my take, personally I think of somebody who has at least some interest in the product a dealer. Like somebody who scrounges around at flea-markets for records say, finds some rare ones, and flips them for a profit. A dealer typically deals in used product.


A scalper has no interest in the product. A scalper may buy mass quantities of a product that's in short supply but high demand like concert or sporting event tickets, they don't have to like the band/team, know who plays for them, or give a crap about them, just know that the concert/game is going to sell out and that some people who didnt get tickets at regular prices would be willing to spend more than the going rate for the tickets.

you can't really be a dealer of concert tickets, but you can scalp.
you can't scalp old furnature, but you can deal.

[4NDR01D]

I dont know if I agree with you on this. Think about it, by this definition, unless the employee who orders the inventory at TRU has a love of toys or a personal collection, then TRU would be one of the largest toy scalpers out there. They buy huge amounts of toys, mark them up 100%(customary for retail) then resell them at this inflated price.
Scalping is the "term" given to someone who resells something at a price the "term giver" feels is unfair. Like I said before, A SCALPER IS A DEALER THAT HAS PI$$ED SOMEONE OFF

I consider employees and stores that sell new products retailers, which is different from both dealers and scalpers, although they may show characteristics of both.
Oh geez, now I'm so confused i don't know what i believe anymore.

[4NDR01D]

You want to REALLY get confused? What do you call someone who sells a carded action figure for $300 when it originally cost $1.98?

A very good businessman!

[Blue Meanie]

If your only intention is to take the rare/chase figs off the shelf to sell them at an inflated price on ebay while the demand is up you are a scalper. Whether you use the money as income or to finance collecting it's still scalping

I completely agree. That sums it up in a nutshell.

[samurainoir]

If your only intention is to take the rare/chase figs off the shelf to sell them at an inflated price on ebay while the demand is up you are a scalper. Whether you use the money as income or to finance collecting it's still scalping

I have a friend who does a similar thing with real estate. Is he a scalper?

He uses the money as income as well as finances his home(s).

[Blue Meanie]

I respectfully disagree that scalpers are providing a service. They're taking products out of the market and holding them, creating a new market that wouldn't exist otherwise. Scalping is a racket - it artificially drives prices up and creates a black market.

I personally think collectors are mostly to blame because they see collectibles as investments. They actually get excited when they see prices jump because they feel the 'investments' they made have gone up in value as well. They remember the small percentage of collectables in their collections that actually increase in value short-term, or the even smaller percentage of collectables that continue to increase in value beyond the normal rate of inflation - but generally collectors choose to forget that the majority of all collectibles are decreasing in value.

I'm a little bit confused...on one hand you say that scalping is a racket...and then you say that the collectors are mostly to blame. In my opinion "one hand washes the other" in this case. I can tell you from experience of having done plenty of toy/comic shows in the past...I used to when I would see the latest "collector" that came along in the Star Wars game back when they re-released new figures in '95. The Star Wars fan was the absolute WORST when it came to "I gotta have it now". They created their own mess...not the scalpers. All of those idiotic so called "variants" that were basically paint errors in the factory. I once told a Star Wars collector that came into a friends store that they should wait a couple of weeks for a Yoda figure that just came out...I told them Hasbro usually short packs figures in the 1st wave of figures and the Yoda figure would start showing up in droves in a couple of weeks. He said I have to have that Yoda figure...My friend had it marked $15. The guy bought the figure. I gave him advice on how to wait for a figure that he knew was going to be out by the dozens in a couple of weeks yet he STILL bought the figure. And the guy wasn't a dealer....he was a regular collector that came in all the time. I just don't get that logic..."Let me pay 3 times for a figure so I can say I have it NOW." In the case of the Neo Star Wars collector it definitely is "one hand washes the other."

[Brazoo]

It's the exact same with ticket scalping - it's a racket, but it only exists because people tolerate it. If everyone agreed not to buy from scalpers then scalpers would disappear.

[Brazoo]

>I personally think collectors are mostly to blame because they see collectibles as investments.

I agree. It kinda creates it's own separate market too; since it creates a percieved difference between "collectible" and "neat thing that sits on my computer." Then it becomes self-perpetuating.

>the whole idea of people using collectables as investments is deeply deeply flawed to me

....'cos it doesn't work. Any serious price jump is gonna be temporary, and you're very seldom gonna find an object that holds it's value for a decent enough price to make it proffitable. But it's like the lottery: just enough people win to make it seem worthwhile to the majority who don't.

Don C.

Yeah - well I don't care about people who can afford to gamble. Gambling comes out of their entertainment budget, that's fine. It's the people who think of gambling as an investment strategy - they're the ones in trouble. And the thing is people with gambling problems tend to remember the wins - not the losses.

I've seen friends spend/waste TONS of money off this stuff for short term gains - they just don't see the long term losses. I have done it too - but I stopped a long long time ago.

[GreenLantern9999]

Just to toss this out there I am a comic book store owner and I do not buy anything from other stores to stock my own shelves but one might see my prices and call is scalping but truth be told if I order the same product from my distributors it costs almost the same if I bought it from Walmart so I have a higher price and people look at me like I am stealing from them.

[TrueDave]

I got into this during a bleak time. 1980s so EVERYTHING I got was old ( worth having) I can wait.

Back before I got internet ( 5 years ) It was teh flea Market guys that got me.

Marvel Legends Red Skull? etc?

Thats why I like collecting reproductions. Whatever I;'m hooked on was originally made 30 years ago.

I can wait. And enjoy what I already have :-)

Sure there are some things that disappear. I would like to habve a Retro Mattel Supes and Luthor. and maybe Sinestro.

But I''l wait for those Rhino and Invisible Girl hoarders out there.

Still hope they improve the body and skin color problem. Even Silver Age DC has too light a skin.