Michael Jackson MRSA

[Vortigern99]

Hector, your knowledge and understanding of the Mexican mindset does not translate perforce to a knowledge and understanding of the African-American mindset. Even if you could demonstrate that American blacks as a group have this "white=superior" mindset -- which you cannot, because it does not exist -- you would still not be able to show that this single individual, MJ, shares that mindset.

Your opinion in this regard is not substantiated by any facts. I continue to reject your assessment of MJ's personal beliefs and opinions.

That MJ has confessed he likes to sleep with children (in a non-sexual way, according to him) is admittedly creepy and very likely psychotic (= out of touch with reality). However, once again, this does not translate into a "white=superior" mindset. The one does not follow logically from the other.

He wants to be something he is not.

It is not presumptuous...it's right there in black and white (no pun intended)

I know many relatives who are the same as Michael...trust me...it's an inferiority complex thing...it's prevalent in Mexico as well.

Spaniards, superior...natives, inferior.

And why do people, when they disagree with me, have to say that I'm a nice guy and all?

Totally irrelevant to this conversation, lol.

Besides, he's a fifty year old man who loves to cuddle with kids...I could give a flying crap about him anyway...I have no respect for him...he is a creepy weirdo.

[shyndman]

Amazing how much emotion MJ stirs up - and I thought he was yesterday's news. Talented guy thats become rather sad and creepy over time. The thing with children is alarming and I hope untrue. No one should get away with that - no matter how much money they have . . .

[Mikey]

I think a lot of people love him so much, they kind of look the other way at all his molestation charges.

They try to cover it up inside their own heads by saying it's a shame he has so many emotional problems.

Rich people have emotion problems

Poor people are crazy and get put in the nuthouse or jail.

[huedell]

Jackson will always be the guy that made OFF THE WALL and THRILLER
to me...FIRST

I love those albums...two of my favorites.

All the other stuff you guys are discussing here?

Maybe yes...maybe no. It seems like speculation with
a lot of factors supporting "yes" but, yet still likely he isn't
a confirmed child molestor or wannabe white....both heavy accusations.

I feel like I'll never know "the truth"----and I don't particularly WANT
to know----ya know?

And although I agree with most of what Vort said in this thread---not to
mention most everywhere else as well---Hector is certainly onto
something with that wannabe mindset in black culture----
Any black person's autobio I've read (SISTER SOULJAH, CHUCK D,
LL COOL J, etc.) talks to some extent about the mindset of blacks
who place certain levels of value on the lightness of their skin.
I'm not saying EVERY black thinks that way (that would be crazy)
----but just enough think that way to take note of and not discount.

(Personally, I always thought someone as successful and showered
with praise as Jackson wouldn't have the urge to change himself
in order to be more accepted)

[Vortigern99]

T1K, the testimonies of those kids were self-contradictory and unsubstantiated. Just because someone brings an accusation against someone else does not make the accusation true. The charges were blatant money-grabs. We have no evidence either way, and since the testimonies were contradictory and the motives of their parents plain and evident, I'm willing to give MJ the benefit of the doubt. You're choosing to believe the kids and their money-grabbing parents over MJ, and that's your prerogative. But don't expect me to follow suit just because you automatically think the worst of him.

[huedell]

I think a lot of people love him so much, they kind of look the other way at all his molestation charges.

They try to cover it up inside their own heads by saying it's a shame he has so many emotional problems.

Rich people have emotion problems

Poor people are crazy and get put in the nuthouse or jail.

Rich people also have a lot of money for those that are poor to
go after in court cases.

Mix that with said rich person's habits of being unusually "close"
and affectionate with children---even if they aren't his----
and even if he isn't sexually abusing those kids,
it's a recipie for multiple court cases and media hoopla.

I'm not saying he's innocent...I'm just pointing out the flipside
of your argument is all.

[Vortigern99]

And although I agree with most of what Vort said in this thread---not to
mention most everywhere else as well---Hector is certainly onto
something with that wannabe mindset in black culture----
Any black person's autobio I've read (SISTER SOULJAH, CHUCK D,
LL COOL J, etc.) talks to some extent about the mindset of blacks
who place certain levels of value on the lightness of their skin.
I'm not saying EVERY black thinks that way (that would be crazy)
----but just enough think that way to take note of and not discount.

(Personally, I always thought someone as successful and showered
with praise as Jackson wouldn't have the urge to change himself
in order to be more accepted)

Those are good points which I must concede. Even Malcom X, before his rise to power in the NOI, believed that his own lighter skin was inherently better than his siblings' darker skin. However, that still doesn't translate to "wannabe white". The mindset that being a "lightskinned black" is better than a "darkskinned black", however foolish or false, still does not translate to "white = superior" or "black = inferior" as a race or ethnicity. MJ might want to make his skin lighter for aesthetic or philosophical reasons (and the skin condition might be a cover for this) because he wants to look more like Diana Ross, his childhood idol, not because he wants to look like a white man. That may seem just as fruity or whatever, but I believe the distinction is important.

[huedell]

MJ might want to make his skin lighter for aesthetic or philosophical reasons (and the skin condition might be a cover for this) because he wants to look more like Diana Ross, his childhood idol, not because he wants to look like a white man. That may seem just as fruity or whatever, but I believe the distinction is important.

I see this distinction---but I'm gonna go with the feeling
(for myself) saying the two divergent mindsets are so closely
resembling each other it doesn't make much difference...one is
"to be lighter" and the other is to "look like a white man"
Those are basically the same to me....especially after looking
at exactly what Mike has changed himself into.

Although, I guess most of those whites that frequent the tanning salons
might say differently!

[kryptosmaster]

I was wondering why there were so many responses in this thread.


Rich

[Vortigern99]

Well, a black man changing his appearance to more closely resemble a black woman, and/or because he places a premium on light-skinned "blackness", is different from doing so in order to resemble a white man. The latter rejects his inborn ethnicity and racial identity, which I don't believe MJ is doing.

[huedell]

Well, a black man changing his appearance to more closely resemble a black woman, and/or because he places a premium on light-skinned "blackness", is different from doing so in order to resemble a white man. The latter rejects his inborn ethnicity and racial identity, which I don't believe MJ is doing.

I understood your explanation---I just don't see it as being that
seperate.

I think at THAT point there is a "bigger picture"----I mean
let's speculate here...

who is to say that if Mike wanted to look more like Diana
it isn't due to the whole thing I spoke about earlier: a belief
that light skin ("more white") is higher on the societal scale
and the urge to pursue that....even if that's a subconscious
reason/secondary reason pawned off on "I want to look like my black friend"
----the two mindsets are just TOO closely related in my mind....

---it's an adjustment against your blacker skin roots....I know it, you know it
and Mike knows it.

[Vortigern99]

It's separate insofar as race/ethnicity/cultural identity are concerned. Wanting to look like a certain woman who is of the same race/ethnicity, but of different physical characteristics, is not the same as wanting to look like another race/ethnicity altogether. Hector said that MJ wanted to look "white" and that simply isn't true. MJ has said he's proud to be black, and I believe him.

[huedell]

It's separate insofar as race/ethnicity/cultural identity are concerned. Wanting to look like a certain woman who is of the same race/ethnicity, but of different physical characteristics, is not the same as wanting to look like another race/ethnicity altogether. Hector said that MJ wanted to look "white" and that simply isn't true. MJ has said he's proud to be black, and I believe him.

I think it's QUITE possible he THINKS he's proud to black
but subconsciously/indirectly his intent is the opposite.

Not saying you're wrong----I'm just saying I think my stance
is quite possible and soimething to consider.

Sometimes what we think we're doing is not really
what it is at closer introspection.

That's something pondered during a LOT of psychologist/therapy sessions
across the world.

[Vortigern99]

That's a fair point, and something to consider.

[huedell]

That's a fair point, and something to consider.

You read my mind

Wait-a-minute