Catwoman Eartha Kitt dies at 81

[LadyZod]

I will truly miss Ms Kitt.

She was my favorite Catwoman, bar none.

And the fact that she was/is as popular as Julie Newmar in that role goes to show that Halle Berry as Catwoman was a box office bomb, not because of any racial issues, but because the story, it's mythology, and she as Catwoman just plainly sucked.

And in regards to BTAS TwoFace issue... anyone else see the same "African American" traits present in the TwoFace design in the design of Lex Luthor? To add fuel to this fire, I've also had KIDS asks me if a black man does Luthor's voice.

[huedell]

And in regards to BTAS TwoFace issue... anyone else see the same "African
American" traits present in the TwoFace design in the design of Lex Luthor?
To add fuel to this fire, I've also had KIDS asks me if a black man does
Luthor's voice.

In my personal opinion, this IS adding "fuel to the fire" to those concerned
about going off topic because now we're talking about a character
who wasn't theorized to be a "racial straddler" as the Billy Dee
Two Face was (due to his Batman movie Dent appearance which was an
influence here)---

BUT

I set the thread in that direction...so I'll try to handle it dutifly

With that in mind...yes, LadyZod...
I TOTALLY see those features in Lex's face---in fact---the first time I saw
"animated" Lex, the first thing I thought of was a Bible picture book I had as
a kid.

The artwork for the Bible book (not so ironically) was full of racially ambigous
people (no need to break the forum "religion" rule to theorize why!).

If I may theorize why Caucasian Lex had those quasi-African features in
the cartoon--
well, here he was a MAJOR character with no hair and a business suit---
that face needed to carry the character's uniqueness and that face
along with Clancy Brown's deep, commanding voice did a great job IMO.

Now back to Catwoman and Kitt...

And the fact that she was/is as popular as Julie Newmar in that role goes to
show that Halle Berry as Catwoman was a box office bomb, not because of
any racial issues, but because the story, it's mythology, and she as
Catwoman just plainly sucked..

If it wasn't for Kitt's original performance as Catwoman, the Berry movie
would never have ended up the way it did. I'm not blaming Kitt for
the poor quality of the movie---it's just that Kitt's 1960s atypical casting
in a role usually thought of as "white" set the groundwork for a
"black" Catwoman---

---no matter how the movie actually turned out---I think that's ^^
cool and, really that's why I brought up Two-Face to begin with
(that and that other people had already alluded to the black/white
role scenario in this thread).

Kitt was a racial pioneer in 60s television (akin to Nichols on Trek)
and yet she ALSO pioneered race reinterpreting in the DCU....
(yeah, I know I said that already---but it seems my
intentions here at Mego Museum really needed the clarifying!)

RIP

[The Toyroom]

The animated Two-Face and Lex Luthor are caucasian characters...period. There is no African-American influence...it's just the stylized look of Timm/Dini et al. Talk about making "something" out of nothing that isn't even there in the first place....

[thunderbolt]

I don't see it.

[huedell]

The animated Two-Face and Lex Luthor are caucasian characters...period. There is no African-American influence...it's just the stylized look of Timm/Dini et al. Talk about making "something" out of nothing that isn't even there in the first place....

You and T-bolt crack me up....you HAD to post more on this.

You're dang RIGHT it's the "stylized look of Timm/Dini"---that's the point

---on these characters more than others....especially Two-Face who they were intentionally racially stradding with due to Williams....I agree that Luthor
was indeed never even supposed be hinted at anything otherwise than
Caucasian---but dang if they didn't give him those African-American features
more than other white characters in order to stylize his look the way they
wanted....and it worked. (I wouldn't be surprised if Two-Face's face was an
influence on Luthor's though!)

You claim there "nothing" here, "nothing" there, yet people like me,
LadyZod and E2Chris' friend see multiple things all pointing to the same
theory about these aspects.

Sorry, what's there is there, regardless of what the people that DON'T see it
say (and attempt to prove/disprove).

EDITED TO ADD:

A black man called "John N." posted THIS on Yahoo Answers...

It's really unclear if he's black or of another ethnic race. I always
assumed he was either black or hispanic.

(you can google
to find this thread I'm speaking of on "yahoo answers" which AGAIN asks the
question of whether Two-Face was black or white on B:TAS---the verdict
seems split---- way in favor of him indeed being black)

Yet another example of this same reaction to the character.

But you guys can keep saying I'm making something out of nothing

[almitysufx]

did anyone else see " The Emperor's New Groove" and get a kick out of her turning into a kitten at the end?
She always had such a great voice.

[thunderbolt]

Well, if Harv was indeed intended to be black in the animated series, it was very groundbreaking. He was probably the first cartoon character to have an interracial relationship. Whatever you think, Hue its up to you. All the times I've seen Harv and Lex, not once did I perceive either of them as being anything but white guys.

[thunderbolt]

Bruce Timm artwork. Actually looks like he went to the Joan Crawford school of eyebrow plucking.

[huedell]

Well, if Harv was indeed intended to be black in the animated series, it was very groundbreaking. He was probably the first cartoon character to have an interracial relationship. Whatever you think, Hue its up to you. All the times I've seen Harv and Lex, not once did I perceive either of them as being anything but white guys.

Fair enough.

And as far as Dent's race in the series...even I'LL admit that
the production team could (and probably would)
indeed claim that Dent was white---

but due to all the "arrows" pointing in the opposite direction---my conclusion
is that Dent's design was INTENTIONALLY HIGHLY ambiguous...

and that was the point I was making, even after I relegated myself
to the idea---that---yeah---it seems "black" wasn't ever
a final choice for Den'ts race in B:TAS as I had thought previously.

while, yes Lex was intended to be white (like he is in the comics)
but with simillar black features to Dent's---small difference visually---but
the intent in comparison to Dent's character was...um...er..."black and white"?

[The Toyroom]

You and T-bolt crack me up....you HAD to post more on this.

Had to post more? That was the only thing I DID post...I'm not going to get sucked into another debate with you Hue over "nothing". If you think Two-Face on BTAS is black or has subtle black-features because they were trying to give a nod and a wink to Billy Dee Williams portrayal in the '89 Batman flick, then that's your opinion.

Just keep in mind that Billy Dee Williams/Harvey Dent occured as a minor supporting character in 1989. It probably had more to do with star-casting than trying something "ground-breaking" by changing race on a character. The animated Two-Face didn't debut until 1992...the same year as "Batman Returns" which DIDN'T feature Harvey Dent or Two-Face. So I really don't think the producers of the animated series were anticipating the possible return of BDW to the live-action films by that point and tried to incorporate certain facial characteristics into THEIR version of Two-Face.

I think it's sorta crappy that a tribute post to Eartha Kitt has turned into another off-the-wall debate....she was a great Catwoman REGARDLESS of her race or the change of color of a villain's skin and we should leave it at that.

[huedell]

I think it's sorta crappy that a tribute post to Eartha Kitt has turned into another off-the-wall debate....she was a great Catwoman REGARDLESS of her race or the change of color of a villain's skin and we should leave it at that.

Some would say she was a great Catwoman "in spite of" her race
which is integral to the eyebrow raising perception of her casting
---as the Catwoman character was white in the comicbook
and originally played by a white woman on TV.

Sorry to those I may have offended who are colorblind to this
point ---or colorblind to any other racial implications in the comicbook world...

I'm not so colorblind and indeed just thought it was an interesting part of
one of Kitt's major roles---probably her most famous role---and worth
discussing at this time of her passing.

Yes, she was great as Catwoman too.

RIP

[Mr Mego]

Take easy guys, Stay on Peace.

How about that?



J/K. I don't care if that's black or white cartoon/Comic guy with 2 faces color.


Sorry to heard the Catwoman died...... she's my favorite movie star... RIP


Pat

[thunderbolt]

Did she sing the Dr. Evil theme from Austin Powers?