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I've always hated Miller"s influence on the character and think the DKR is way over romanticized in popular culture.
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I have a hard time enjoying DKR, despite it's merits, because of what it did to comics. It's not Miller's fault that every Tom, Dick and Harry who followed him just had to deconstruct the super hero and make them grim and gritty too, BUT, I have difficulty separating the source from the ultimate outcome.
DKR was also the WORST thing that ever happened to Superman. The character has never recovered from the crippling portrayal of him as a government patsy.
ChrisComment
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Absolutely. Honestly I think it has something to do with the studios feeling they need some kind of literary reference to "validate" him. As if existing for 78 years in print and film does not qualify.
I think the entire Miller segment in Batman's history is completely overrated. I'm of the opinion that Warner Bros still holds onto old attitudes about comics and superheroes that were more prevalent in the 70's and 80's. I think its reflected primarily in how they try to depart from the source material so much in their film projects. Another reason why I enjoy Marvel product so much more. Yes, they DO wander a bit for artistic license, but they certainly have no problem embracing their comic roots. Warner Bros seems almost shamed to let their heroes shine. At least they trusted Richard Donner in 1978.
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Absolutely Tom. I liked Year:One, but the rest has not aged well IMO. And Miller lost all credibility with me for his Spirit movie and The Dark Knight Returns. I avoid his work now,WANTED: Dick Grayson SI trousers; gray AJ Mustang horse; vintage RC Batman (Bruce Wayne) head; minty Wolfman tights; mint Black Knight sword; minty Launcelot boots; Lion Rock (pale) Dracula & Mummy heads; Lion Rock Franky squared boots; Wayne Foundation blue furniture; Flash Gordon/Ming (10") unbroken holsters; CHiPs gloved arms; POTA T2 tan body; CTVT/vintage Friar Tuck robes, BBP TZ Burgess Meredith glasses.Comment
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There may be something to Warners still feeling "comic shame". WB kept DC at arms length for decades. They never embraced the brand like Disney has done with Marvel in a short amount of time.
ChrisComment
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Yes!
The Spirit could have been an enjoyable noir-ish, period-piece movie, and Miller gave us a steaming pile of dung, complete with toilet "humor". I nearly walked out of it in the theater, but kinda couldn't look away, like an accident scene. The 1980s TV movie with Sam Jones is art by comparison.
You reference The Dark Knight Returns, PNGwynne, what about The Dark Knight Strikes Again? While I'm no fan of DKR, the follow-up was particularly odious, IMO.Comment
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Warlock, I misspoke. DKR has a little merit as a dystopian Elseworlds. Its sequel was utter pandering, sell-out crap.WANTED: Dick Grayson SI trousers; gray AJ Mustang horse; vintage RC Batman (Bruce Wayne) head; minty Wolfman tights; mint Black Knight sword; minty Launcelot boots; Lion Rock (pale) Dracula & Mummy heads; Lion Rock Franky squared boots; Wayne Foundation blue furniture; Flash Gordon/Ming (10") unbroken holsters; CHiPs gloved arms; POTA T2 tan body; CTVT/vintage Friar Tuck robes, BBP TZ Burgess Meredith glasses.Comment
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Put me down as a Frank Miller hater too.
I do like the look of his DKR/Batman...but as a couple of you pointed out...Superman was the end loser of Miller's concept.
Not only it made Superman into a government puppet...but turned Batman from detective to a near god-like mythical persona.
As Brian said, DKR is way over romanticized in popular culture nowadays.sigpicComment
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There's much more chance--though I'd loathe it--of Capt. America becoming a Comedian-like puppet of the govt. than Superman, who if disillusioned would either leave or fry us all. jk
Miller and to a lesser extent late Denny O'Neil are responsible for pushing Batman's character way off-center to compensate for Batman'66 phobia.WANTED: Dick Grayson SI trousers; gray AJ Mustang horse; vintage RC Batman (Bruce Wayne) head; minty Wolfman tights; mint Black Knight sword; minty Launcelot boots; Lion Rock (pale) Dracula & Mummy heads; Lion Rock Franky squared boots; Wayne Foundation blue furniture; Flash Gordon/Ming (10") unbroken holsters; CHiPs gloved arms; POTA T2 tan body; CTVT/vintage Friar Tuck robes, BBP TZ Burgess Meredith glasses.Comment
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You mean if you were Zod.3. The Batman vs Superman fight itself, pretty good...but you know me, if I were Supes, I'd never get close to Batman...and just heat blast him from 100 yards away, that, or drop his own Batmobile on him from afar, lol. Supes also never moves or reacts at super speed...the entire fight is at human speed, come on now, lol...
The only reason he doesn't...when he could eeeaaasily do so.....is because he is Clark Kent. And if he weren't Clark Kent, son of Jonathan and Martha Kent, he might just as well be Zod.
It goes back to Achilles and his heel. All powerful heroes are not very interesting.
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But it was ok for him to plow that terrorist guy thru a wall?You mean if you were Zod.
The only reason he doesn't...when he could eeeaaasily do so.....is because he is Clark Kent. And if he weren't Clark Kent, son of Jonathan and Martha Kent, he might just as well be Zod.
It goes back to Achilles and his heel. All powerful heroes are not very interesting.You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace. -Ernie BanksComment
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