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**Earth 2 Chris** · Aug 1, '13, 7:18 PM

Looks like this is paving the way for New 52 movies, just like in the comics. The next film is Justice League: War, based on the first arc from the New 52 title.

So looks like Superman Unbound may be the final appearance of the red shorts in any media form for a while.

I'm on the fence on Flashpoint. I didn't read the comic, and I don't like my heroes behaving badly. I think this is a skipper for me.

Chris

**TomStrong** · Aug 1, '13, 7:37 PM

It's on my Netflix queue but it'll be a while before I get it.

**madmarva** · Aug 1, '13, 9:00 PM

Chris, you're on to something, I'm afraid, based of the close of Flashpoint. If you've not read the story, I think the movie would be pretty interesting if you think of it as an else world story. There is a cool documentary on time travel and one on the Rouges.

But in the story, in that universe all the heroes are compromised because of one decision. I liked it as a one off type thing and because dramatic things happen that couldn't in an in-continuity story/universe.

The sheer number of characters used is cool to see, including some Wildstorm characters. And no one would want to tussle with an Amazon or an Atlantean after watching it.

**huedell** · Aug 2, '13, 11:08 AM

I cried, like 5 times, in the last half hour of it.... good luck to a "live action" superhero film achieving that kind of emotional impact with me.

**BlackKnight** · Aug 3, '13, 1:37 PM

Well ...
While I didn't get all Emotional over the Toon ..., It was Ok to me.
The Story Line, Really follows the Books to the Extreme...., Some stuff was like a Touch off, like The WW/ Mera Helmet was different ...., I missed the part in the Books where Martha Wayne Ended up being the Joker ... and So on ... Kuberts Art was Much More Pleasing in the Books as well.

I really Hated the Animation on this Offering.
I'm not a Fan of Young Justice either...
But the Animation of this ..., was so God Aweful to me..., it was difficult for Me to Enjoy the Toon. ....
But I also really Knew the Story, because it was about the Last Great Story from DC ...., and I'm a Huge Elseworlds Fan.

But Looky Here...
To Me, this is Where DC Movies and Toons really mess up ...
Instead of making this some Half Arse Raced Cartoon ..
This coulda really been the Back Bone for The Justice League Movie ..., with very Little intro needed for the Characters...
As far as using the War Between WW And Aquaman the Blue Prints...., Alot Less PG though ..., and Having Darsied being behind the War come to Everyone's attention.

I'm really feeling a Shoulda, Woulda , ... Coulda Vibe Here Big Time.

**madmarva** · Aug 3, '13, 2:32 PM

^Just because this cartoon was made doesn't mean ideas from Flashpoint won't be mined for a JLA film.

----------------------spoiler----------------------------

The Martha Wayne as Joker was in the Flashpoint Batman mini series, which didn't really have a lot to do with the main story, but was probably the best part of the crossover, imo.

I'm not a fan of anime-style either, but it's evidently the world we live in. I got past that. And enjoyed the story a lot more than I remembered from the comic. Flashpoint became anticlimactic in the comics when DC announced its latest reboot right before the event started.

I didn't remember the comic being so violent with characters getting taken out left in right. I forgot a lot of stuff. Skinny Superman was a terror with his heat vision. Batman ventilating Reverse Flash's head. Cyborg's chest being being cracked open. Aquaman's buddy putting the bite on Hal Jordan. Wonder Woman playing executioner with Steve Trevor and Mera.

My favorite part was the fight between Deathstroke's crew and the Atlanteans. No one would laugh at Aquaman after watching that.

**VintageMike** · Aug 3, '13, 2:45 PM

I liked it but after seeing what the running time was I reached a pivotal point with these: Even if your getting a blu ray & DVD it's not worth the price,so I'm buying mine digitally now. Amazon included the bonus features so the only thing lost was the ability to lend it to someone.

**BlackKnight** · Aug 3, '13, 3:06 PM

IT was ONLY 13.99 at Target ... for the Blu-Ray DVD Combo

Terry -
I read all those Books ..., or seriously thought I did ..., maybe I didn't read the Batman 1's.. and Still missed Martha as Joker. lol ... I dunno , maybe I was Drunk ... trying to find the issues now. lol.

I can get past some Animation that looks Similar ...
But this Cartoon was a Mess...
I'm really thinking DC Is going Cheap-O on Animation ...., with some of these to cut down costs, and the fact that it seems to be faster to make as well. If Somebody seriously compairs this Animation to the other offerings ...., it's Horrible...

**BlackKnight** · Aug 3, '13, 3:08 PM

In the Comics ...
Mera went off on her own ..., and tried to Attack WW ..., In which She took Her Head and Helmet ..., The set up was alittle Different. But see, All that was after Ocean Master Set up an Attack, ( or maybe it was Artemes ..., that I believe Left Aqualad ( 1st one) Dead.. at the Wedding ...

**madmarva** · Aug 3, '13, 3:57 PM

Yeah, I remembered the plot behind the war, but not some of the extreme violence at the end.

I listened to the commentary and Tucker, Olivia, Johns and one of the guys who worked on Young Justice were all really happy with the animation and the design. I think the animation or action was fine. I just don't like anime design, but if those guys like it, then we're kind of screwed.

It's going to be interesting to see how they translate Lee's style to animation or if they even try. They did a nice job with Miller's and Mazzuchelli's

**palitoy** · Aug 3, '13, 8:20 PM

Wish I had have done some reading on this. I showed it to my kids, who asked me to turn it off.

Honestly, even without the kids watching (which was my bad) I thought this was trash. Sorry to me, this came across as a 16 year old's wet dream of gratuitous over the top, ridiculous violence and it's the reason I don't read DC anymore. Count me out if this is the future.

Oh and way to mine an old Star Trek episode for your brilliant plot. Has Ellison sued yet?

**madmarva** · Aug 3, '13, 10:51 PM

^The amount of violence in Flashpoint did surprise me. Geoff Johns, who wrote the book, sometimes goes for the gore in his work, but I didn't remember that much from the comics. It was a sprawling event with 20 different mini series so maybe condensing that much material made it stand out more in the animated movie.

I do think a lot of parents will be surprised by the material contained in the cartoon. It's rated PG-13, but animation and Justice League spells kid friendly in most people's minds or it does to me, and it definitely wasn't kid friendly. It was as - if not more -violent as Dark Knight Returns. I wonder if the movie will be seen by enough people for there to be a backlash.

Yeah, parallel universes are cliched, but time travel and alternate realities were Flash's gimmick before Roddenberry had sold Star Trek and was still writing TV westerns, so neither Star Trek nor Ellison hold any ownership on them or the butterfly effect as plot points. But no there was no real originality in the plot. It was an excuse for Johns to go Miracle Man on the DCU or do his version of Kingdom Come.

While Johns is very good at making use of continuity and connecting dots that seem obvious that no one else has thought of before, he can be gratuitous and even juvenile in some of his choices.

----------------------------Spoiler------------------------------------

The point of the story and the violence wasn't really revealed until the climax when Reverse Flash lectures Flash on the selfishness of his choice to change the past and allow his mother to live. Basically by Flash putting his own need or desire above everything else, that change breeds a totally selfish world where the super-powered beings weren't altruistic in their choices but just out for themselves.

Does making that kind of point justify all the violence? Maybe, but I still think a lot of parents who buy the DVD might be upset.

**monitor_ep** · Aug 3, '13, 11:09 PM

What is worse is the next movie will be DCnU Justice League first story arc. I stopped reading a lot of my DC comics due to this restart and it looks like the only reason to get the movies is for the collection, and not for the fun factor.

**huedell** · Aug 4, '13, 6:18 AM

I wish I was less lazy than quoting all of madmarva, and saying that this post basically sums it up for me:

Originally posted by madmarva

^The amount of violence in Flashpoint did surprise me. Geoff Johns, who wrote the book, sometimes goes for the gore in his work, but I didn't remember that much from the comics. It was a sprawling event with 20 different mini series so maybe condensing that much material made it stand out more in the animated movie.

I do think a lot of parents will be surprised by the material contained in the cartoon. It's rated PG-13, but animation and Justice League spells kid friendly in most people's minds or it does to me, and it definitely wasn't kid friendly. It was as - if not more -violent as Dark Knight Returns. I wonder if the movie will be seen by enough people for there to be a backlash.

Yeah, parallel universes are cliched, but time travel and alternate realities were Flash's gimmick before Roddenberry had sold Star Trek and was still writing TV westerns, so neither Star Trek nor Ellison hold any ownership on them or the butterfly effect as plot points. But no there was no real originality in the plot. It was an excuse for Johns to go Miracle Man on the DCU or do his version of Kingdom Come.

While Johns is very good at making use of continuity and connecting dots that seem obvious that no one else has thought of before, he can be gratuitous and even juvenile in some of his choices.

----------------------------Spoiler------------------------------------

The point of the story and the violence wasn't really revealed until the climax when Reverse Flash lectures Flash on the selfishness of his choice to change the past and allow his mother to live. Basically by Flash putting his own need or desire above everything else, that change breeds a totally selfish world where the super-powered beings weren't altruistic in their choices but just out for themselves.

Does making that kind of point justify all the violence? Maybe, but I still think a lot of parents who buy the DVD might be upset.

I'd also add that that I usually post about how I like my heroes "light" and less "real" blah-blah, yada-yada, etc., etceterai---

BUT if the story is simple & interesting enough and the dialogue is cool, then I'm all in no matter how dark the story is... I guess.

That quality that marva says that Johns has of "connecting dots that seem obvious that no one else has thought of before" really speaks to the comicbook geek to me. Johns' clever characterizations of "Thomas" Batman, "Captive/Freed" Superman, "Rival" Mera and "Warring" Arthur/Diana all had an impact on me because I'm a big fan of those characters and I thought they were utilized well. Heck, seeing the twist on Manta and Orm even got me worked up... and those guys are tiny bit players.

In fact, the extreme darkness of all this didn't even occur to me because I guess there was a consistency to what was going on... a consistency of extreme tragedy that marva may very well be right on target with, the tragic lives and deaths of the characters being a symbol of a kind of "punishment" for the Flash being so selfish as to change the course of history. It's a good philosophical debate actually, and I'm actually getting choked up now just thinking about it.

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