Flashpoint Paradox

[Earth 2 Chris]

Wish I had have done some reading on this. I showed it to my kids, who asked me to turn it off.

Honestly, even without the kids watching (which was my bad) I thought this was trash. Sorry to me, this came across as a 16 year old's wet dream of gratuitous over the top, ridiculous violence and it's the reason I don't read DC anymore. Count me out if this is the future.

Oh and way to mine an old Star Trek episode for your brilliant plot. Has Ellison sued yet?

I was afraid of this. I think I am going to skip this one. Despite his talents, Johns does have a disturbing knack for going overboard with the gore...it really began with Infinite Crisis with Superboy Prime beheading and maiming tons of Teen Titans characters.

Rob Kelly over at the Aquaman Shrine said he felt the animated movie was more violent than the comic...and that was saying something.

Chris

[palitoy]

I do think a lot of parents will be surprised by the material contained in the cartoon. It's rated PG-13, but animation and Justice League spells kid friendly in most people's minds or it does to me, and it definitely wasn't kid friendly.

I really don't want to harp on that for me personally. I usually review these before my kids see them, I've blocked more than a few. We had just watched the Crisis (for the tenth time) and I stupidly popped it in.

My point with the whole thing wasn't my kids, it was that the over the top, cliched violence turned me right off.

Yeah, parallel universes are cliched, but time travel and alternate realities were Flash's gimmick before Roddenberry had sold Star Trek and was still writing TV westerns, so neither Star Trek nor Ellison hold any ownership on them or the butterfly effect as plot points. But no there was no real originality in the plot. It was an excuse for Johns to go Miracle Man on the DCU or do his version of Kingdom Come.

That's what the lawyers will say but that was "City on the Edge of Forever" with a little bit of "A Sound of Thunder" mixed in for flavour. Come on!

While Johns is very good at making use of continuity and connecting dots that seem obvious that no one else has thought of before, he can be gratuitous and even juvenile in some of his choices.

Agreed. Some nice nuances but it was kind of ruined by the gorefest for me. Wonder Woman killing a kid I'm sure was supposed to be a dramatic high point I'm sure but at that point the fatigue had set in.

Does making that kind of point justify all the violence? Maybe, but I still think a lot of parents who buy the DVD might be upset.

I'm in the no camp, I think the story was done as an excuse for the violence. I'm not a prude and I own growed up things like Watchman, Killing Joke, Planetary etc but I just got turned off by the overkill here, it felt needless to me.

Also, hearing Hal Jordan say ***hole? Whoa, now we're wearing big boy pants! It reminded me in the opening credits how Ryan Reynolds swore three times while in traffic, so important to the plot, so effective, so superheroic.

As for PO'd parents, I noticed copies of Final Frontier in below action figures on my last visit to Target. I won't let my kids watch that one but own it. That's the bigger problem, putting quasi adult materials in the toy section seems....irresponsible.

[thunderbolt]

^^ You mean New Frontier? That ones a lot more tame than Flashpoint.

[palitoy]

^^ You mean New Frontier? That ones a lot more tame than Flashpoint.

Oh yeah, no argument there, but it's not a kids movie either.

[MIB41]

Wish I had have done some reading on this. I showed it to my kids, who asked me to turn it off.

Honestly, even without the kids watching (which was my bad) I thought this was trash. Sorry to me, this came across as a 16 year old's wet dream of gratuitous over the top, ridiculous violence and it's the reason I don't read DC anymore. Count me out if this is the future.

Count me in your corner as well. I was out at Target the other night and bought this thinking I would finally have a fun adventure featuring the Flash. Never in my wildest imagination did I anticipate the level of graphic violence depicted here. This has no place in the kids isle or even in the DC universe for that matter. And whoever was in charge of overseeing this animated feature should be fired. This can cause many parents to take pause in letting their kids see theatrical releases if common sense oversight is lacking this badly. I wish I could return it. But I'm not sure Target will take a Blu ray return after it's been open. Pure garbage. And to think they used the Flash as the central subject for this violence. Very sad.

[madmarva]

I've always wondered if "City on the Edge of Forever" was influenced by "It's a Wonderful Life" or "The Greatest Gift?" I'm guessing Ellison was familiar with them at the time he wrote the script for Star Trek, but maybe not.

Of course those works were riffs on "A Christmas Carol," which I'd never really thought of as a time travel story, but it obviously is. Dickens' idea sprang from the parable of the rich man and Lazerus in Luke chapter 16 of the New Testament.

It's always been interesting to me to know what may have influenced what.

I guess I'm a bit of a hypocrit enjoying Flashpoint because one of the main reasons I've enjoyed super heroes for 40 years is that basically they do what's right or are unselfish or altruistic or heroic because it's the right thing to do.

I also don't like to read or hear in terms of film and animation super heroes curse or swear when there is no reason, as Palitoy cited in the GL film and Flashpoint. I don't mind more adult or mature stories being told with the characters, but for the most part I feel the Justice League heroes and for that matter the Avengers should be geared at all ages.

The lines have been blurred to a degree because of the change in the age of super hero fans, but I always hope the characters I fell in love with as a kid will always be kid- friendly for the most part.

I've always given else world or what if type stories a bit more latitude, because they are essentially evil or changed versions of the characters, but for a parent that's a hard line to walk when making a purchase in a store.

In many ways comics have been insulated from those types of questions and criticisms by catering to a niche direct market. Folks that go to a comic shop know for the most part what they are getting. But an animated movie sold at Target and Wal-mart could have a much wider audience than even the most popular comic series.

As a fan, it's a difficult place to take a firm stand, too, because many of the stories we do revere such as Dark Knight Returns or Killing Joke, the first Wolverine mini series are stronger than the average super hero material. But I do believe the situations in those comics were more tastefully managed than the Flashpoint animated film.

I read the Flashpoint comics and while the story from them and the one depicted in the DvD are very similar in my memory, I don't remember thinking the comics were more violent than the norm. It may be the simple fact that the cartoon moves where with a comic our imaginations fill the gaps between the panels. Or the violence may have been amped up in the movie.

Again, I like the point of the story - singular selfish acts tend to create a selfish society or world - but did the film and comic have to be so gratuitous in making it?

See I would defend a novel like Huckleberry Finn for its use of language because the strength of Twain's message would be diluted and even less truthful, but I kind of feel silly drawing a parallel between a classic of literature and a silly comic book movie.

[MIB41]

I think if animated features involving traditionally safe characters for kids are going to start taking liberties as to what kind of adult material they explore in their stories, then the industry is going to have to start making a distinction that goes well beyond the vagueness of a rating system that no one generally uses as a guide for this type of subject matter. And retailers need to be able to make informed decisions about where they place it, if the content is inappropriate for age groups that share shelf space with it. Because for some age groups this would have been considered R-rated material for it's scope of adult themes and graphic violence. I'm very disappointed with DC Comics for allowing this to go out in the fashion it did.

[madmarva]

I'd agree that the level of violence would warrant an R rating. Had the appropriate amount of blood for some of the violence been shown, it probably would have gotten an R.

Similarly, if the current Wolverine film had shown a realistic amount of blood for all the hacking and slashing in the movie, it would have been rated R.

[BlackKnight]

Everything was sorta Ok for me on the Violence..., I watch far worse stuff, so I am never really thinking about that sorta issue..., But like after reading Everyones thoughts..., I suppose Actually showing Mera's Severed Head..., Mighta been alittle Extreme for the Average Watcher. .... That wasn't even shown in the books ...., that Graphic.

[The Toyroom]

I have no interest in this simply based on the fact that "Flashpoint" ruined everything by setting into motion events that led to the New 52. It's not my cup of tea...

[BlackKnight]

I have no interest in this simply based on the fact that "Flashpoint" ruined everything by setting into motion events that led to the New 52. It's not my cup of tea...

The Return of Barry Allen .., set the Spiral Motion of what is Now the New 52.
I'd so Arch him ..., If I could. I blame Him for Everything. It was fine, till he came back. He's so Lame Compaired to Wally West too.

[The Toyroom]

The Return of Barry Allen .., set the Spiral Motion of what is Now the New 52.
I'd so Arch him ..., If I could. I blame Him for Everything. It was fine, till he came back. He's so Lame Compaired to Wally West too.

Don't blame Barry Allen....Blame Geoff Johns. He ruined "Flash Rebirth" and wrote a Barry Allen that wasn't the Barry Allen I missed and grew up with. It was a stupid idea originally put forth in "Rebirth" about Barry's mother being murdered by the Reverse Flash and Barry trying to "fix" it.

Johns may have written many good Wally West stories but he never got a handle on Barry Allen. One of his major misfires at DC IMO....

[BlackKnight]

I'll Blame Morrison ...
Dude swiped him for Final Crisis..., thus Tainting His Character for his " Return"
... And Everything Since..., outside of Blackest Night, has been Complete Garbage.
Morrison Sucks Once Again.
... But I still hate Barry Allen.

[madmarva]

I agree, Anthony. The idea that every DC super hero's origin has to be influenced by a parental tragedy is repetitive and lame. It was retconed into Hal Jordan's origin first - I believe in Emerald Dawn - and then to Barry Allen's.

Johns obviously had Flashpoint in mind while he was doing Flash Rebirth - although probably not its connection to the New 52 revamp although it did dovetail fairly conviently for DC.

I liked the idea of having Barry Allen back in play, but as both you and J have pointed out it just didn't work very well. Plus I didn't want Barry back at the expense of Wally, but that wasn't how it was originally planned. DC originally announced they would share the Flash title post Flash Rebirth and announced a Kid Flash title with Bart, but that all changed when Nelson took over DC and Didio and Lee and Johns decided to reboot everything.

JOhns and Lee's first arc on JLA is the next animated adaptation. I hope that doesn't mean all the future animated products are New 52 oriented.

I'd still like to see Sinestro War adapted but my dream project would be an animated version of The Levitz/Staton/Layton origin of the Justice Society. Of course I know that will never happen.

[isaacbradly]

I think the animation was my only real complaint. Bodies were just too bulky and distorted, but I will take poor animation for an awesome story any day...