MOS trailer

[huedell]

I find the reluctance to call him "Superman" a bit odd. It's like the "Selina Kyle" thing with Dark Knight Rises. I mean, he's Superman for goodness sake. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, guess what...?

In for a penny, in for a pound Hedji--- they decided not to call him by "Superman" in the movie's title.... so, the longer they can ride a decision process of that decision during this promotional period, the more they milk that angle they took, albeit, admittedly: a risk. But the Superman movie franchise NEEDS to take risks at this point. It NEEDS a LOT of stuff

[thunderbolt]

It's an interesting premise. I really like the Jor-El logic; send him to Earth because he'll be almost godlike and they can't hurt him. Every father would take that option.

When did that context come in play? I don't remember that in Donner's, Byrne's reboot, STAS or even Smallville. It actually makes Luthor's opposition more understandable.

.

Byrne's reboot had comments like that from Jor El, too. I must say that the trailer gets me interested in a superhero film for the first time this year.

[hedrap]

Both your "Lois" AND "Jor-El/Luthor" premises feel like they've been there for as long as I can remember. However, in much different ratios.

I've never been all that superhero media savvy (ESPECIALLY with comicbooks) so I'm sure there's a billion members here who could clarify these premises' origins to a great extent, more than me just saying "Yeah, that sounds about right." Ha.

Luthor has always been portrayed as more jealous and power hungry. This path leads him to being more protectionist. The only commonality I can think of is STAS used to portray him as suspicious, but that was more subtextual for his want of power. Even on Young Justice, it was power first.

As for Lois, she's apparently following a human interest story about some "guardian angel" that appears and saves people in disasters as she says "How do you find someone whose spent a lifetime covering his tracks". That's more logical than being the "scoops" reporter at the Globe, which is about as anachronistic as it gets.

Re: Pa Kent and Zod.

Zod makes his way to Earth because he's tracked the rocket, which is still at the Kents farm. They juxtapose the scenes of Zod yelling at Jor-El with what appears to be Zod's "ships" hovering above the farm. If they are re-working Superman 2, then we need a reason for Clark to don the suit, which won't happen in the first act and also why they play the name game at the end of trailer. Lois won't name him "Superman" until near the end, so I'm guessing one of his guardian angel names will be the "man of steel".

Also, a lot of the Kryptonian technology looks like Giger/Super Powers Brainiac.

EDIT: The technology also sets up Metallo for future use.

[huedell]

Luthor has always been portrayed as more jealous and power hungry. This path leads him to being more protectionist. The only commonality I can think of is STAS used to portray him as suspicious, but that was more subtextual for his want of power. Even on Young Justice, it was power first.

As for Lois, she's apparently following a human interest story about some "guardian angel" that appears and saves people in disasters as she says "How do you find someone whose spent a lifetime covering his tracks". That's more logical than being the "scoops" reporter at the Globe, which is about as anachronistic as it gets.

Re: Pa Kent and Zod.

Zod makes his way to Earth because he's tracked the rocket, which is still at the Kents farm. They juxtapose the scenes of Zod yelling at Jor-El with what appears to be Zod's "ships" hovering above the farm. If they are re-working Superman 2, then we need a reason for Clark to don the suit, which won't happen in the first act and also why they play the name game at the end of trailer. Lois won't name him "Superman" until near the end, so I'm guessing one of his guardian angel names will be the "man of steel".

Also, a lot of the Kryptonian technology looks like Giger/Super Powers Brainiac.

EDIT: The technology also sets up Metallo for future use.

I'd bet on YOU hedrap for the "name" thing and "Zod thing" as well as the "Brainiac" thing.

Regarding Luthor (again) you may have never seen that element in all the media you mentioned, but in JL and JLU the whole team was kinda treated like that by Luthor... also, I could swear that issue came up in one of the Public Enemies or other DCU animated movies and it was DIRECTLY referring to Superman.

[madmarva]

There's a Luthor miniseries by azzerello and bermejo that delves into Luthor's motivation for his hatred of supermant stemming from him being an alien. The mistrust of Superman as an alien was also used in the animated series, Lois and Clark and has been a common trope in comics at least since a late 80s or early 90s miniseries called Invasion.

[hedrap]

Yeah, you guys are right about JL Animated. I totally blanked on that one.

You know what's interesting?

David Goyer came up with this premise, as he did with Batman Begins, and you can see the story beats playing out almost identically in MOS as they did in Begins.

Now I'm wondering if a wandering Bruce Wayne makes a cameo as he criss-crosses paths with a wandering Clark Kent....

...that would be the only way to top Pacific Rim and create enough noise to equal Avengers.

[huedell]

Yeah, you guys are right about JL Animated. I totally blanked on that one.

You know what's interesting?

David Goyer came up with this premise, as he did with Batman Begins, and you can see the story beats playing out almost identically in MOS as they did in Begins.

Now I'm wondering if a wandering Bruce Wayne makes a cameo as he criss-crosses paths with a wandering Clark Kent....

...that would be the only way to top Pacific Rim and create enough noise to equal Avengers.

NO! That would too good an idea for WB/DC to inject. Why do something that cool & smart for a change?

On a less sarcastic note, I too, saw the simillarities to Batman Begins here.

I'm not saying this to be a party pooper, but in THAT respect, I'm already looking forward to MOSII.... I mean, Supes comic lore re-told and re-invented is totally cool with me, yet I pretty much know how much COOLER it will be once the costume is firmly established in the scheme of things.

[ctc]

>has been a common trope in comics at least since a late 80s or early 90s miniseries called Invasion

Earlier; if you consider Marvel's whole "Mutants bad!" trope the prototype.

>Luthor's motivation for his hatred of supermant stemming from him being an alien

Y'know.... this'll sound weird, but I actually miss the old "You made me bald!" motivation. Not 'cos it was particularly brilliant, but because it was different. Luthor became every cyberpunk corp ever during the 80's; which made sense, but was pretty blah considering how many of those guys were creeping theoughout the nerdly arts of the day. I'm always sad that nobody goes the other way with their reinventions; rather than filing off the old school weird, filling in the blanks so's to make it more plausible. Like.... Luthor's kind of an obsessive nut and the hair thing, small as it was.... pushed him over the edge. You could then come up with a complex, detailed character study about why he's always been so insecure, and how that leads to his quest for power and influence.

Don C.

[madmarva]

I was referring to Superman comics, not comics in general, but good point. None of these ideas are new in an off themselves, but the details and execution make the difference in the being dull or interesting.

The motivation of Wolfman and Byrne's Luthor for hating Superman wasn't far off the "he made me lose my hair" version, imo. Superman stole Metropolis from him or his place in the city and its adoration. It's still egomaniacal hate based on a perceived loss created by Superman.

While I'm not that fond of the campiness of Hackman's portrayal of Luthor in the first two films, I do like his motivation - Superman is a worthy rival; I'll vanquish him.

But perhaps the most realistic version to me is from Smallville. Basically, Luthor is trying to be Clark's friend, but Clark spurns that friendship in Luthor's mind by not being open and honest, which again taps into the comics origin of a friendship gone bad.

I enjoy Luthor in most of his forms. I like him as member of Superman's supporting cast, not just and adversary that pops up now and then. Byrne and Wolfman did that very well, although they may have taken their cues for Miller's use of Kingpin in Daredevil. Loeb also did a nice job with him I his run, making Luthor kind of the JR Ewing of the. DCU.

[hedrap]

Rosenbaum's Luthor was perfect, especially in the first four seasons.

[knight errant00]

I admit, of what's been released, this one's gotten me the most interested. The music reallly struck me.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Rosenbaum's Luthor was perfect, especially in the first four seasons.

Agreed. In hindsight, he was Smallville's greatest asset. Even when the show was going through it's worst periods, the Lex-heavy episodes were always great.

Chris

[huedell]

>Luthor's motivation for his hatred of supermant stemming from him being an alien

Y'know.... this'll sound weird, but I actually miss the old "You made me bald!" motivation. Not 'cos it was particularly brilliant, but because it was different. Luthor became every cyberpunk corp ever during the 80's; which made sense, but was pretty blah considering how many of those guys were creeping theoughout the nerdly arts of the day. I'm always sad that nobody goes the other way with their reinventions; rather than filing off the old school weird, filling in the blanks so's to make it more plausible. Like.... Luthor's kind of an obsessive nut and the hair thing, small as it was.... pushed him over the edge. You could then come up with a complex, detailed character study about why he's always been so insecure, and how that leads to his quest for power and influence.

It would be hard to escape humorous overtones in that scenario, Don.. especially with today's "hip shaved head" mentality.

Personally? I'd love to see THAT...or, better yet, WRITE that... but odds are it would be a long haul against hard opposition from the studios and audiences alike.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Lex's "You made me bald" motivation only worked if you were a kid reading the story (or watching it on Super Friends). I always felt it was a really weak motivation for a villain, and a retcon that probably shouldn't have gotten the mileage it did. I mean, I have a nostalgic fondness for it, but it doesn't really work in the long-term for the canon. Much like Thomas Wayne being the first Batman, and Bruce Wayne the first Robin.

Chris

Chris

[huedell]

Lex's "You made me bald" motivation only worked if you were a kid reading the story (or watching it on Super Friends). I always felt it was a really weak motivation for a villain, and a retcon that probably shouldn't have gotten the mileage it did.

DC could have the best writers in the world, but they are such a cluster of corporate ideas that they'd screw up this interesting Luthor motivation no matter what.
Leave it to the good writers and that motivation is just as good a starting point as any for Lex's motivation... maybe better, because as Don pointed out, it's so unique.