Avengers WITH spoilers

[samurainoir]

^^^
I think you've nailed it with the Bixby comparison, he really was channeling that, but not in an overly slavish way.

One thing I really want to see in future films is a bit more emphasis on Thor, Iron man and cap as the heart, mind and soul of the Avengers, which we only got a taste of in the three way throw down. They have always really been the core with all the other characters revolving around them through the decades. Thor and cap had slightly smaller arcs this time out, but it's understandable with so many other characters to service. Looking forward to seeing all the "cut scenes" involving them... Particularly the cap out of time stuff, and maybe some more brotherly conflict between Loki and Thor just to really drive the emotional point home about Thor's love for Loki creating such a problematic blindspot.

[Earth 2 Chris]

I was sorry to lose Norton, but in the end I prefer Ruffalo's take better. His bemused attitude conveyed the beast underneath very well. He seemed to have something boiling under the surface in every scene, much the way Bill Bixby always played it. He had the detached nature of most geniuses as well. Loved how uncomfortable he acted around all of the shield agents and guns, etc.

I think Hawkeye and Black Widow are most definitely necessary for any sequels. As portrayed, they more than held their own, and as david_b said they grounded the other characters. I'm sure we'll get some new members, but I don't want the sequel to get too crowded, and I don't want any of these characters to get the shaft because of it.

Chris

[david_b]

Ruffalo SCORED BIG TIME as Banner/Hulk. Love the wry sense of humor from his end. Some folks are advocating bringing in Vish and the Pyms for the 2nd outing, which I totally agree on.

But they're the same folks that think Widow and Clint can leave, but I'm totally against that. It the smaller-scale, more-human level characters like Widow and Hawkeye that really ground the group and works great on another level. You need that for good team dynamics. The lesser characters help to define the dominant characters in terms of strength, which also brings out sensitivity in the dominant characters by assisting the weaker team members.

Also, IMHO, the 2nd picture (which I heard Joss mention a few words on) will be smaller in scale, more personal and driven, which is PERFECT for the sequel. That's how truly successful sequels work.

It's like a chapter of a book or an act of a play, you have to have highs and lows in terms of action and character development. How they'll do that with Thanos, is anyone's guess. Companies who use sequels to simply try to out-punch or out-CGI the first film typically aren't too successful. I think of Supes II and Empire Strikes Back as great examples.

I still LOVE thinking about the shwarma scene at the tail-end. PURE GENIUS.

[Gorn Captain]

I'm not a big Downey fan, so I'll survive if another actor takes over.
And the rather constant chatter that seems to be a part of Iron Man now, isn't needed IMO. I thought that was more a Spiderman trait.
I don't mind if he stays on to do more movies, but he's not the most essential player.

My favorite so far is Ruffalo as Banner/Hulk.

[samurainoir]

Prior to this, you would have said that Marvel's success stemmed from the fact that their properties were split among different studios, but with Marvel Studios themselves on this impossible winning streak with the Avengers franchise, Warners is really not getting the point of finding the essence of the characters, Let alone the consistency of the current Marvel cinematic universe.

I think the big question will be, what will Marvel do when Robert Downey Jr gets tired of putting on the Arnour? I think it's really obvious how much his character anchors the movie and his chemistry seems to bring out some of the best moments in the other characters (his "doesn't play well with others" is a terrific character catalyst, not just a heroic arc). The fight with Thor, his challenge from Cap about sacrifice, his advice to Banner about "suiting up", his constant questioning around the SHIELD status quo, the verbal throwdown with Loki that takes them into the third act... he really is the engine that drives this film.

[Thor]

I would not assume this would out do Dark Knight. Esp opening weekend. Opening weekend is about speculation that a movie will be good. It is banking on a prooven track record which is why sequels often have higher opening weekends. Sider-man 3 was terrible but has the 5th highest opening weekend to date. DKR will have an ENORMOUS opening weekend. if anything Avengers has boosted DKRs interest. will it out shine avengers - i don't think so. it only has the hype of the character and a nearly 4 year old movie. Avengers has had 4 movies in less time plus Iron man the same year as Dark Knight.

Oh and as far as a nuke blowing up a space craft- it was the tiniest pieces of junk that caused two space shuttles to be sadly lost.

You are talking about earth tech from the last century. I would think a vessel capable of true space travel would be made of some very exotic alloys and perhaps it would have shielding from some forms of radiation too.

[Brue]

I would not assume this would out do Dark Knight. Esp opening weekend. Opening weekend is about speculation that a movie will be good. It is banking on a prooven track record which is why sequels often have higher opening weekends. Sider-man 3 was terrible but has the 5th highest opening weekend to date. DKR will have an ENORMOUS opening weekend. if anything Avengers has boosted DKRs interest. will it out shine avengers - i don't think so. it only has the hype of the character and a nearly 4 year old movie. Avengers has had 4 movies in less time plus Iron man the same year as Dark Knight.

Oh and as far as a nuke blowing up a space craft- it was the tiniest pieces of junk that caused two space shuttles to be sadly lost.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^Hey, not a bad idea! And I liked your post above. Some good points there.

I never would have thought Chris Evans would develop into an actor who could go toe-to-toe with Downey in a scene, but he more than proved that in his solo Cap outing. He really conveyed Cap's presence and born ability to lead. Loved the scene with the cop asking him why they should listen to him. The audience roared both times.

Chris

[madmarva]

Maybe, Coulson's brain pattern could be the blueprint for the Vision's consciousness?

[madmarva]

here's the thing though... Warners did have Whedon when he was attached to Wonder Woman. Is it likely that he'd return given his previous experience there trying to get that film made Vs the trust And leeway marvel/Disney placed in him to take Avengers all the way to completion? They even let him spend the money to film a three hour movie, knowing that it wasn't ever going to get a three hour theatrical!

Hey Ed,
My post is more of a fantasy than something that could realistically happen.

Warner's probably lost their shot with Whedon at least with the super-hero genre. Whendon may have now scratched that itch and go on to other films or he may stick with more Marvel films, although Marvel tends to like to get directors on the cheap. Whedon may be contractually bound to Marvel for some more films.

But, I guess my point is Marvel knows what it's doing with its films, and Warner's only knows how to handle Batman.

I think Warner's probably has its head turned up too much to acknowledge that Marvel has a great blueprint for producing these films: Finding a talented director with some measure of love for the source material, Getting a script that has not been massaged by a half dozen different viewpoints, having the comic book end of the company provide support to the director and screenwriter(s), but not allowing them to rewrite the script (as Johns supposedly did on GL). And, finding a casting director that understand the characters and is attempting to find a star who matches that character, not one who is just popular.

Warner's/DC attempted Marvel's blueprint with GL to a degree when Johns was promoted to CCO, but too much work had already been done on the script and production for it to work. Johns couldn't help but try to infuse the script with his additions to the GL mythos, which no doubt hurt the pacing of the film. Warner's chose a great director in Martin Campbell, who had no love for the source material. The film had a blah feel to it because Campbell had no real passion for the project. The casting of Reynolds, which I initially supported, just wasn't right for whatever reason, possibly again going back to the direction and script. Or Reynolds was just wrong for the part.

The two biggest keys to any film is No. 1 a great script and No. 2 a director with a vision and the skill to execute it. With those two aspects in place, there is a much better chance all the rest will fall into place. Marvel got that in spades with Whedon on the Avengers.

And again Marvel has to be applauded for its casting choices. After watching the film, I really can't imagine anyone but Downey Jr., Evans and Hemsworth in their roles, particularly Downey Jr.

I mean it's not a big scene in the movie, but how great was the chemistry between Downey Jr. and Gwenyth Paltrow and Clark Gregg in Iron Man's movie intro.

Evans did an excellent job of going toe-to-toe with Downey Jr. and Ruffalo did bring a nice understated mad scientist vibe to Banner than neither Ed Norton nor Banna ever even approached.

And Renner and Whedon finally made me get how a character like Hawkeye could hang with the big guns by giving him a gift as a tactician as well as with the arrows.

[The Toyroom]

IMO Bane is not a strong enough villain to catapault "TDKR" past "The Avengers". And Anne Hathaway is not quite hot enough to make Selina Kyle/Catwoman a big draw either. If anything the movie will have to have legs based on people just wanting to complete the trilogy.

[Operation:Mego]

Might be a setup for Thor 2. There is always a cost to dark magic.

It might be. That line was just mumbled quickly, but it defiantly seems like something that will come up again in a sequel.

Just saw the movie...Best super-hero flick...I think "The Dark Knight Rises" just got served...

I know it will be good, but that's my thoughts as well. They say they wanted a Transformers level of ZOMGness, well they achieved it, and surpassed it 10x.

[emeraldknight47]

I definitely think that, barring another tragic happenstance with an actor, TDKR is going to have some difficulty in beating THE AVENGERS opening weekend at the box office. Now, it could have, overall, a better box office haul, but I don't see it or anything else this summer having a 200 million dollar opening weekend....

[The Toyroom]

Just saw the movie...Best super-hero flick...I think "The Dark Knight Rises" just got served...

[samurainoir]

"Tell me, how weak is the all-father using his dark magic to send you here as Earth's protector?" Loki says this to Thor when he first confronts him.

Might be a setup for Thor 2. There is always a cost to dark magic.