Goodbye to "The Big Red Cheese"

[madmarva]

^Really wish Marvel would reprint the Miracle/Marvel Man series of the 80s. I bought that series in the 80s and only read them once before selling my collection in the 90s.

But Young Marvel/Miracle Man was a piece of work.

[ctc]

>This level of both incompetence and blind, stinking luck is not sustainable.

Y’know.... I don’t think it’s either. I think they know exactly what they’re doing, and it’s working as intended. The outraged folks aren’t the target audience any more; hence the continuing sales despite the nonstop hate. (That; and a lot of the outraged seem to still be buying the books.)

Is it sustainable? Not at all, but I don’t think it’s SUPPOSED to be. It’ll keep things hot until the next reboot a year or so from now. Both DC AND Marvel have been using that formula for a decade. If it didn’t work, they’d stop doing it.

>Maybe DC decided they only wanted one real "Superman" and chose to do something with "the big red cheese."

I could see that. Cap M is kinda tough to write for: he’s essentially a Superman clone, with a more whimsical twist. That kind of thing tends to get changed a lot, depending on the current “comics ‘aint just fer kids!/ comics ARE just for kids!” climate; adding to the difficulty of pinning down a unique identity for the character.

I’m not sure what to make of the new costume.... it looks like his old one, with his cape pulled over his head, “OOOOHHH!!!!! I’m a ghost!” style.

Don C.

[samurainoir]

It is Geoff Johns and Gary Frank still isn't it? A writer and artist combo I dig, so I'll take a wait and see approach.

I'm somewhat suspecting that their marching orders with Shazam is "Harry Potter with muscles and a cape", and that there is more at stake than here than just comic sales given how desperate Warner Bros are to start exploiting the DC library of secondary and tertiary characters.

Here is hoping that they succeed and fill out that much needed fourth corner of the genre quadrant... they have Science Fiction in Superman, Detective/Mystery in Batman, Mythology in Wonder Woman. By all rights, Captain Marvel/Shazam should be holding up with the rest of the A-list in the Magic/Fantasy genre.... because it's not like any members of Justice League Dark, Demon Knights or Shadowpact have been stepping up to the plate!

[The Toyroom]

It is Geoff Johns and Gary Frank still isn't it? A writer and artist combo I dig, so I'll take a wait and see approach.

Normally I'd be in for this too, based on the creative team. But this is starting in "Justice League" #7 and I've just come to the conclusion that I wasted money on "Justice League" #1-6 and I really don't think I want to be dragged along waiting for the other shoe to drop to see if this is any good. If it is, I'll hear about it and will check out the inevitable trade. But for the time being I'm keeping my money in my wallet...

[Earth 2 Chris]

I was thinking specifically about the pulp iconography that Bats and Supes were grafted onto in their most primal incarnations, rather than their trappings to turn it into kids entertainment. The best writers always seem to go back to the pulp roots with Batman and Superman... the alien stuff is a classic example. Current creators have taken that fear of aliens from beyond, going back to the earliest pulps, and making that the prime motivator for Lex Luthor in recent years, for example. Made even more real by the fact that malevolent aliens like Brainiac exist in that setting.

I was actually pointing my Supes/Cap comparison to Dane, who called Captain Marvel ridiculous.

Captain Marvel's whimsical nature probably would have slowly evolved into a more contemporary storytelling style had he continued to be published into the 60s. Hard to say for sure.

C.C. Beck himself felt DC misinterpreted whimsy as juvenile, and he felt they really took his character in the wrong direction. It didn't help that Julius Schwartz and Denny O'Neil weren't really all that into working on the Shazam! title. Cap seems to have suffered and suffered because of that shaky relaunch. There was a nice article in Alter Ego #75 about this.

Chris

[Random Axe]

The only chance I have of picking this up is if they truly make him a badass powerhouse, we're talking magical Kryptonian level. We have no idea how the Billy Batson dynamic is going to play out here in relation to the Captain, but I'd like to see them continue where he was with Billy retaining his kid-like nature but also with the God's knowledge base.

As a huge Shazam fan, I am disappointed with this path they have taken, but it might not be the train wreck I predict it to be. I hold no hope this will be good, so I'll be pleasantly surprised if this falls into place. Captain Marvel has just as big of a legacy as the big three and deserves way more respect, but this is reality in 2012, so it's not going to happen. I'll just embrace my slow decent into grumpy curmudgeon while I continue to gripe.

[kingdom warrior]

Honestly I'll never give this crap a try.....not by a long shot. I won't feed into this nonsense that you have to change the character completely in order for it to be successful.

Nope, I'm not buying into this dopey marketing experiment that these morons conjured up.
I'm sick of these ****** ******* my childhood and doing these idiotic circus tricks to bump sales.

This is a GIANT load of **** made to look pretty......well FOOK U DC....if you had real balls you'd work with the character to create something memorable not something that we may be snikering at down the road.....and saying remember when they tried that crap.

For those who like this more power to you, and keep feeding the machine cause they don't give two squats about anything anymore but getting your money......Once Upon a time comics were written by greats now all i see are pretenders selling half *** hack ideas......

I'm more than happy finding back issues and collecting the real stuff from the Golden age.....not this load of uninspired crap!...........end rant.

[kingdom warrior]

Yes, a boy magically turning into a grown man with super powers is so much more ridiculous than alien who hides his secret identity behind a pair of glasses.

Chris

and hangs with the same people his alter ego knows....lol!

[samurainoir]

^Really wish Marvel would reprint the Miracle/Marvel Man series of the 80s. I bought that series in the 80s and only read them once before selling my collection in the 90s.

But Young Marvel/Miracle Man was a piece of work.

Given that Alan Moore would need to put his signature on paper for that to happen, I'm not quite sure we'll be seeing that happen... He recently deep sixed the 1963 trade, and that was with co-creators he hasn't publically expressed any disdain for. He still holds a three decade grudge with Marvel.

The likeliest scenario I can see is that the Neil Gaiman run gets reprinted, and perhaps completed? Proceeds going to CBLDF or ACTOR or Mck Anglo's estate.

[Type Two]

He needs one big boot to be complete and...EXTREME!

[madmarva]

^I'm really more interested in Moore's work on Miracle Man than Gaimen. Why would Moore need to sign off on it? Did he receive more rights to the work than he did for his DC work?

[samurainoir]

^I'm really more interested in Moore's work on Miracle Man than Gaimen. Why would Moore need to sign off on it? Did he receive more rights to the work than he did for his DC work?

The rights issue is way muddy at this point, but even if Marvel does own the character Marvelman, they do not have any copyright ownership claims on Moore's story, even if it is of a character they own the trademark to.

Gaiman specifically has a relationship with Marvel in that 1602 was published to provide a war chest against McFarlane over the Miracleman trademark.

So marvel can publish the classic Mick Anglo's stories, and likely Gaiman and Buckingham's since those two creators have an amicable relationship with Marvel and would likely strike a deal.

Moore would never do so, still holding onto bad feelings about how Captain Britain shook out (he believes they did not have the rights to reprint his Capain Britain stories), as well as being bullied by Marvel int changing Marvelman to Mracleman.

It all gets muddier once you get the finger pointing going between Alan Moore and Alan Davs over who screwed who Over the American reprints of Captain Britain and Miracleman stories they collaborated on.

[Bruce Banner]

Picked up JL # 7 yesterday with the new Shazam back up feature.

Interesting. We don't get a full look at the new Cap yet... just that pic that's already been posted. Most of the feature is taken up by introducing the new "bad kid" version of Billy.

[aquatroy]

I thumbed through it at the LCS. Franks' work is really good. However, I can't bring myself to support that title.