Goodbye to "The Big Red Cheese"

[Random Axe]

One of two things is happening with Johns.


1. He's nothing more than a finger puppet for the corporate monster, doing whatever DC and WB tell him to do, and Jim Lee is really the main man in charge of this and he's got no choice but to make the best of what he's given.

2. All of his past successes were flukes and he's really out of ideas and creativity. He did have a pretty large role in the GL movie, so that could have been an indication his talents and clout were waning.

The differences between JSA and Green Lantern Johns and the one currently writing, overseeing this horrendous pile of drek are monumental. It's like Frazetta painting with his finger.

[bleit1701]

guessing you can kiss Tawky Tawny goodbye in this version.

He'll be a man eater...

[thunderbolt]

From The Mayo Report:

"January 2012 was an historic month for DC Comics which took all of the top ten slots on the comics sales list from Diamond for the first time since Diamond started releasing sales information based on sales invoiced to retailers in March 2003. Having been shut out of the top ten twice before during that time, this is a major achievement for DC. Even more impressive is that one of the items did it with estimated sales reduced to account for possible future returns. This is the fifth month in a row that DC had had the largest percentage of the total unit sales of the top 300 comics. All of this points to the decision to reboot the DC Universe with the New 52 as having paid off so far."

All DC did was redistribute existing readers, they barely created any new market. Just took the fanboys already out there from Marvel and Image. 18 months will be just about right to see the dust settle on this mess.

[Bruce Banner]

I'll be picking up the issues of JL that this'll appear in, but Cap has always been one of my favourite super heroes, and from initial glimpses, this may be one new 52 "reimagining" too far.

[Earth 2 Chris]

And they passed up Alex Ross' reboot. O-KAY.

I think nearly everyone at DC is drinking the WB Kool-Aid. "You must reboot!" When the "New 52" was announced, many creators said something to the effect of "Sales are down, we really have to do something to capture a bigger audience, or...". Nobody ever came out and said what the "or" was going to result in. But clearly, the WB suits told DiDio, Lee and Johns to redo EVERYTHING or some major ca-ca was going to hit the fan.

And, ironically, this major ca-ca has hit us fans like a ton of bricks!!!

Chris

[GaryPlaysWithDolls]

What a bummer.

[The Toyroom]

One of two things is happening with Johns.


1. He's nothing more than a finger puppet for the corporate monster, doing whatever DC and WB tell him to do, and Jim Lee is really the main man in charge of this and he's got no choice but to make the best of what he's given.

2. All of his past successes were flukes and he's really out of ideas and creativity. He did have a pretty large role in the GL movie, so that could have been an indication his talents and clout were waning.

The differences between JSA and Green Lantern Johns and the one currently writing, overseeing this horrendous pile of drek are monumental. It's like Frazetta painting with his finger.

I think it's more of #1. Johns' has worked too much magic breathing new life into old properties and concepts for them all to have been flukes. So I think that he's been directed by corporate to take things in a totally new direction. Not sure how much Jim Lee is in charge but I think he and DiDio are co-publishers so they probably outrank Johns BUT Johns IS Chief Creative Officer of DC so he definitely has his hand in the pie. And you can't discount how much of an influence the WB execs have in all of this.

I thought that all of this reshuffling was to provide more synergy between the comics, the multimedia stuff and the merchandise. But I really don't understand how you can even hope to build brands and franchises capable of sustaining their own movies when you're constantly changing and tweaking the archetypes that most people are familiar with.

Captain Marvel/Shazam is a perfect example...I would assume most people have some small working knowledge that he's a boy who says "One Magic Word" and becomes "The World's Mightiest Mortal". That's what most people would expect to see if they went to see a "Shazam!" movie. And even at that, a Shazam movie has been in developmental hell for quite a while now. So I'm not sure how changing the core concept to make him more dark and brooding and with more lightning based powers is going to help get a film greenlit for production.

[The Bat]

Well guys, I guess only time with tell if the New 52 will continue to have great sales numbers.

As for Shazam...he's never been able to sustain his on title and I don't see this new incarnation as any exception.

[The Toyroom]

Well guys, I guess only time with tell if the New 52 will continue to have great sales numbers.

As for Shazam...he's never been able to sustain his on title and I don't see this new incarnation as any exception.

Really?! Captain Marvel was published continously from 1939 to 1953 and his title outsold "Superman" and every other title in the Golden Age. But because of the lawsuit by National (DC), Fawcett just decided to shutter the whole Marvel Family.

It's been DC that hasn't know what to do with the character. When he was revived in '73 by DC his title lasted 34 issues (which isn't bad for a title during that time period when there were a LOT of books that didn't even last a 3rd of that).

The "Power of Shazam" series lasted for 48 issues. Again, nothing to sneeze at compared with other titles. It's been since "Power of Shazam" though that DC has been really dissatisfied with the character and has felt the need to constantly change things up. If they had kept with the Ordway approach and had had someone like Alex Ross or Dan Jurgens try a revival they would have had success instead of passing it on to Judd Winnick...

[The Bat]

Regardless of long any Shazam title lasts...my point is that it still gets cancelled. Not something you can say about Superman, who's been around since like the 40's?

[The Toyroom]

With the exception of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman NO title has been continuously published since the 40s (and even those three have had some breaks).
Aquaman has had more DC revivals (series, mini-series, one-shots) than Captain Marvel.

And keep in mind, Captain Marvel went away after '53 BECAUSE of DC....you don't know what might have happened if there was never a lawsuit and Fawcett had keep the character in publication. He was already outselling the Man of Steel back then.

[madmarva]

I'm no big fan of Winnick, but with the Shazam property, my understanding was that he was kind of in the same situation as Ron Marz was with Green Lantern.

"We want you to do Shazam and we want it linked to the original but different with a younger, hipper version of what was cool 60 years ago."

It's kind of a thankless task.

Captain Marvel, a character who is a kid that turns into an adult, had its apex in popularity when it was mostly kids reading the comics.

Since it's mostly nerdy, out-of-shape guys in their late 20s to 50s reading comics today, maybe DC ought to allow Billy to grow up in to your average down-on-you luck 40-year-old, but when he says the magic word, he's transformed into a powerful, handsome, athletic, virile 22-year-old with a million-dollar wallet. That's my power fantasy today.

[kingdom warrior]

Regardless of long any Shazam title lasts...my point is that it still gets cancelled. Not something you can say about Superman, who's been around since like the 40's?

Superman started in 38..

Batman was on the verge of cancelation in the 60's it had become a dog of a title. it was finally the shows popularity and a small costume change and Dennis O'Neils and Neil Adams revival brought Batman back

Superman was another Title that suffered for a few years as Superman seemed corny and outdated BUT Superman the movie changed that...

Wonder Woman was changed to a hipster who shed her costume lost her powers and had a mentor. the book did poorly and was bi-monthly it wasn't until the TV show that she was returned to her former glory......

Captain Marvel is a victim of DC not giving two ****s about the character in recent years...Power of Shazam stepped in the right direction...but the artist that was chosen to do the regular series was IMO a bad choice, Ordway should have been the penciler right from the start.

DC has no clue what to do with him honestly, and I always said he does NOT belong in the regular DC continuity. He does not fit. He would be better off away in his own world.......It also hurts him not to have a TV show attached to him. Somehow I think deep down DC fears that Cap, will out sell Superman again....

[Figuremod73]

DC has no clue what to do with him honestly, and I always said he does NOT belong in the regular DC continuity. He does not fit. He would be better off away in his own world.......It also hurts him not to have a TV show attached to him. Somehow I think deep down DC fears that Cap, will out sell Superman again....

Some very good points. I have always felt Captain Marvel belongs in the "fawcett" Earth. He was unique to his world and having him with the JL puts him sorta out of place.

Power of Shazam was Ordway at least trying. I think other writers dont even do that...


I actually believe the tv show hurt the character in his comic. They began writing the comic sorta like the show and of course THAT wasnt gonna work,lol.

DC needs a character to 'step up' other than Batman right now if there films are gonna compete with marvels.

[Figuremod73]

Just wanna add:
Nothing really against that '70s show im glad it was there. Filmation did a much better job with the later cartoon around '81 or so, i have good memories of it.