NOT Your Daddy's "Earth-2"! (Or Mine Either...)

[thunderbolt]

Horrible, just plain old horrible. Ohh, and a big P for an emblem? bad idea.

[Blue Meanie]

Yet they'll make Starfire, a featured character on a children's cartoon (that still airs on Boomerang) a tramp, no problem.

This is just...awful. Couldn't DC given us old fans SOMETHING? Like one comic?

And why get George Perez to draw your book if you're going to colorize all his line work and make his stuff look like it came out of an electric coloring book!!!

Chris

I was just going to say that...That cover looks NOTHING like George Perez. Either it's his layouts, like they did on the new version of Supes, or a REALLY BAD job of inking. That's probably the worst George Perez work I've ever seen.

DC is KILLING the older collectors/readers. Thank God I don't get anymore comics. This new 52 pushed it over the edge for me. No turning back now...and this just adds gas to the fire of DC going down.

I don't understand the logic...DC could have really put the nail in the coffin for Marvel...cause Disney doesn't have a clue how to handle the Marvel Universe...but nope, DC goes and shoots themselves in the foot by doing this re-vamp of the DC universe. Just pathetic.

[Random Axe]

Aside from the GL titles, I just don't have the stomach for this new direction. This may eventually be a great decision for DC and extremely lucrative. It does however leave me and several of you out of the picture. I'm going to concentrate on picking up older collected books instead where trunks are cool.

The worst part of all this new 52 is that they didn't have to do as much as they are re-telling origins and updating the looks of the characters. They just had to assemble the right creative teams and tweak a few things. A Johns/Lee Justice League would have been huge in the previous continuity. Give him a six month lead time and George Perez would have made ANY DC book a winner.

They truly need a creative board of directors, people who would oversee the projects who not only have tremeandous respect for the medium but also could facilitate change that doesn't rip to shreds 70 years of success. Mark Waid, Chris Claremont, Marv Wolfman come to mind. Veterans who can grasp the big picture without reimagining that picture.

DC will only get into my wallet on reprints and trades. This new stuff is not for me nor do I think it was meant for me.

[The Toyroom]

This weekend I'm gonna pull out my "Crisis On Multiple Earths" trade paperbacks and reminisce about the good old' days of Earth-1 and Earth-2 and the real Justice League and Justice Society. DC can f' it all up as much as they want...but they can't take away my memories.

And the really sad thing is 40+ years from now there won't be a bunch of 45 year olds complaining about how "their" DC is F'in things up...because at the rate they are going they won't have much longer before NOBODY gives a crap what they do to the characters because no one will be around to read them. So much for years and years of loyalty as a monthly reader....they've taken EVERYTHING away from us and haven't given one iota of good stuff back ('cept maybe "Aquaman") in return. All of the new 52 books are tainted in one way or another...whether its unnecessary redesigns or halfassed origin reboots or doing away with iconic things like Martian Manhunter as a JLA member, Cyborg as a Teen Titan, a GREEN Beast Boy, Wally West, Donna Troy, Green Arrow that looks like Green Arrow and not a Smallville refugee, Wonder Woman's red boots and Superman's red trunks.

Sgt. Roger Murtaugh said it best in "Lethal Weapon"...

[The Toyroom]

The worst part of all this new 52 is that they didn't have to do as much as they are re-telling origins and updating the looks of the characters. They just had to assemble the right creative teams and tweak a few things. A Johns/Lee Justice League would have been huge in the previous continuity. Give him a six month lead time and George Perez would have made ANY DC book a winner.

They truly need a creative board of directors, people who would oversee the projects who not only have tremeandous respect for the medium but also could facilitate change that doesn't rip to shreds 70 years of success. Mark Waid, Chris Claremont, Marv Wolfman come to mind. Veterans who can grasp the big picture without reimagining that picture.

That would have worked perfectly! Kickass teams doing their best work on classic characters. But instead we get an influx of has-been former Marvel writers and artists from the 90s like Bob Harras, Rob Liefeld, Tom DeFalco, Fabian Nicieza, Scott Lobdell, Howard Mackie....BAH!

[Random Axe]

You don't even have to go back that far. Infinite Crisis was pretty slick and has been read by me numerous times. I do still have to re-read the original crisis, though. I can't believe I'm admitting to this, but I hadn't read it since it came out as monthlies...

[The Toyroom]

Infinite Crisis was pretty decent and could have been a nice building block for a new multiverse...but instead it was all one squandered opportunity after another. And now, not even 10 years later, they've done a massive reboot once again. And don't listen to the spin doctors that it's a "soft" reboot...it's becoming more and more apparent that those Silver Age/Earth-1 characters that became the post-Crisis characters but still retained a lot of the same lineage do not exist anymore in the new 52. I think these changes are a lot more radical that those instituted by Byrne on "Superman" or Perez on "Wonder Woman" or Miller on "Batman" (Year One). THOSE are actually a "soft" reboot if you look at it now in comparison. At the very least visually a lot of the post Crisis characters at least resembled their earlier Silver Age counterparts.

[Earth 2 Chris]

I agree on all points. The books COULD have been "refreshed" with top talent like Johns, Lee, etc, without throwing out the baby with the bath water. DC had the perfect opportunity with Infinite Crisis, and it seems like that series changed direction in mid-stream to me. I know there was a lot of editorial back and forth, but I think if they had made some creative changes then, and reintroduced the REAL multiverse, then it would have been a win-win for everyone.

As it stands I think we are seeing another speculator boom in some respects. Give these titles another six months and see how they do. Meanwhile us DC diehards are off buying backissues and TPBs.

Chris

[Bkane]

As much as I dislike what they've done to PG... I'll still get this because it's the only choice :(

[madmarva]

Anthony, I agree. DC hasn't done a soft reboot. It's become more and more clear that they basically have done their version of the Ultimate universe without retaining the original characters and titles as Marvel did.

It's familiar enough to call it Superman or Wonder Woman or Batman, but as you and Chris and Scott have pointed out, these are not the pre-Crisis, post-crisis, post infinite-crisis characters.

Supposedly, the DC editors have a time line including the major events the company is retaining from the past continuity. I'd really like to see it. I bet all of it is negotiable.

As Scott stated, most of the stories that are being told could have been told in the old continuity and in the old costumes.

I'm reading about 15 DC books as opposed to 25 or 30 in the past. Part of it is budget and part of it is that it's easier to drop books that I have no sentimental or nostalgic investment in.

Obviously, the relaunch is doing well for DC based on sales figures, which only backs up their ideas that these changes are for the better. But, how long will it last.

As for Earth 2, It's definitely not the book I wanted, even if all I've seen is a variant cover. I'm still going to try it because I'm interested in the JSA and I want to see if it resembles the old concept at all. I'll also try the Power Girl/Huntress book mainly because of Levitz, Perez and McGuire. But my high hopes have pretty much been dowsed.

But just like I never really cared for the post-Crisis Huntress, I have almost no ties to these characters and if the books aren't really good — and they may end up being very good based on the talent — I won't have any problem dropping them.

I know why DC changed Power Girl's costume and reduced her bust line, but really that, and perhaps a surly attitude, was all that ever made the character stand out.

[cjefferys]

Honestly, I haven't read a new superhero comic in 20 years. And every time I see something like this, I remember why. Neither Marvel or DC has any respect for their characters' histories anymore. These aren't the characters I grew up with, and frankly I have no interest in them. I honestly think that their comics will eventually just die from lack of readers. The characters will live on in movies, TV, cartoons, video games, toys, etc (luckily Warner and Disney are big multi-media companies) but with the comics I just see desperate attempts to keep a readership when older readers just eventually get fed up and quit and there is a severe lack of younger readers coming in (for numerous reasons) to carry the torch of fandom. It's sad really....

[The Toyroom]

DC has no one to blame but themselves for the decline in sales that they are trying to recapture with this nonsense....Since "Identity Crisis" there have been major missteps in the direction of the DCU. "Identity" itself painted a very dark portrait of the once pristine Silver Age JLA. Fail.

"Identity Crisis" writer Brad Meltzer is handed the reins of a new JLA relaunch and spends most of the time having them look through pictures picking members of the team before he does a JLA/JSA/LSH storyline (with Geoff Johns) that ultimately goes nowhere. Then Dwayne McDuffie comes on board but his hands are tied by DC editorial. Fail.

"Infinite Crisis"- A nice attempt to bookend the original "COIE" that actually could have been the start of good stuff...But...

"52" is an ambitious year long weekly mini-series that ends up accomplishing nothing other than reveal the existence of a new multiverse as well as setting up Booster Gold's new series. But nothing is done with the multiverse because DC is waiting for Grant Morrison to come down from Mt. Olympus and write "Multiversity". "Booster Gold" becomes DC's best series under the guidance of Geoff Johns and later Dan Jurgens but is stymied when it's turned over to Giffen and DeMatteis who change the tone completely. Fail.

DC tries another year-long weekly mini series "Countdown to Crisis"... Which accomplishes less than "52" because DC editorial ends up contridicting itself during the course of the series several times. Fail.

The much ballyhooed "Final Crisis" by Grant Morrison is a collection of unique ideas and concepts with a disjointed follow thru. The result is a 7 issue mini series that requires multiple readings to understand that the only thing that actually happens is the return of Barry Allen and the "death" of Batman. Fail.

"Flash:Rebirth"- Geoff Johns moves this series at a snail's pace. Fail.

"Batman:R.I.P."- Another high concept Morrison storyline that ends up "killing" off Batman in another title/storyline altogether (Final Crisis). Bruce Wayne flops through time and his place as Batman is taken by Dick Grayson (who already did it after Bane broke Batman's back). And Wayne's illegitimate son Damian is introduced. Fail.

Meanwhile Superman enjoys a nice origin reboot in "Secret Origin" by Johns & Frank, who had previous success with the character on "Action Comics". But then the character is immersed in a "War of Krypton" storyline and his books are taken over by Mon-El and a new Nightwing and Flamebird for a year. Fail.

"One Year Later" - How could I forget this? Right after "Infinite Crisis" DC takes Supes, Bats and WW off the table for a year, which is told in "52". In the meantime they relaunch, reboot and cancel a bunch of titles under the "OYL" banner. "Sword of Aquaman"? Fail.

How EXHAUSTING was/is all of this? Each one of these fails was directly responsible for erosion of readership IMO...I know comic books are an expansive, never-ending epic form of storytelling but this stuff tries people's patience with no real pay-off because they reboot their reboots in a relatively short period of time...

[The Toyroom]

How could I forget "Blackest Night"? The main title was great but there were way too many spin-offs and mini-series that it began to collapse under it's own weight....

[emeraldknight47]

How could I forget "Blackest Night"? The main title was great but there were way too many spin-offs and mini-series that it began to collapse under it's own weight....

I'll agree that there were a few too many spin-off/tie-in books to Blackest Night (but it still had nothing on CIVIL WAR or any of Marvel's other "events"), but the eight core books that make up "Blackest Night" itself are a stunning compilation when you sit down and read them all together in TPB (kinda like watching an entire season of LOST or FRINGE)....

[samurainoir]

That would have worked perfectly! Kickass teams doing their best work on classic characters. But instead we get an influx of has-been former Marvel writers and artists from the 90s like Bob Harras, Rob Liefeld, Tom DeFalco, Fabian Nicieza, Scott Lobdell, Howard Mackie....BAH!

It does seem like the bizarro 90's, given the fact that I was firmly in the DC/Vertigo corner back then and really had no love for Marvel books of that period shy of the art on the Jim Lee X-Men.