NOT Your Daddy's "Earth-2"! (Or Mine Either...)

[samurainoir]

If they weren't going with a Bronze Age look, I would have preferred if they went more in this direction...


Still, it is better than these...

[madmarva]

It's pretty interesting that George Perez posted on his Facebook page that while he did draw the cover for World's Finest, he wanted to make it clear that he had nothing to do with the redesign of the costumes.

here's his post:

Hey all, with the color cover of WORLD'S FINEST finally released in the solicitations, I just wanted to say something that I've already stated in reply to another post. I had nothing to do with the designs of any of the costumes here, with the exception of some minor tweaks to the seams in Power Girl's costume. (Also, the color shown is not the final version since there are some corrections that need to be made before the book's actual publication.

Here's a podcast interview with James Robinson where he talks about a variety of topics, including Earth 2. Confirms Alan Scott, Jay Garrick and Ted Grant are in the book.

www.comicvine.com/podcast/?podcast_id=119

[Earth 2 Chris]

Anthony's post above cleary shows that DiDio has had no clue what to do with the DCU, and was just bouncing from one thing to another. This reboot was a last act of desperation. On the surface, it seems to have worked. They've regained market share. But as I said earlier, when the newness wears off, the old stand-bys who would never miss an issue will be long gone.

Chris

[The Bat]

[QUOTE=WannabeMego;871152]
I know we constantly sound like a bunch of old farts complaining all the time but I don't think you can ignore the number of folks that are expressing their dislike...hence the decrease in the number of sales./QUOTE]

That's the thing...since the New 52 sales have not decreased...they're selling like crazy. Ask your local comic shop.

[The Toyroom]

Anthony's post above cleary shows that DiDio has had no clue what to do with the DCU, and was just bouncing from one thing to another. This reboot was a last act of desperation. On the surface, it seems to have worked. They've regained market share. But as I said earlier, when the newness wears off, the old stand-bys who would never miss an issue will be long gone.

Chris

I need to add "Flashpoint"...now granted this is the bridge between the old DCU and the new DCnU, so some type of in-story explanation needed to occur to explain the, ahem, "soft" reboot. But "Flashpoint" totally undid the new Barry Allen backstory just laid down in "Flash:Rebirth". And it gave us alternate reality versions of a slew of DC characters and a bunch of tie-in mini-series that inevitably don't matter to either the old OR new continuities. Just another massive undertaking that generated a lot of $$$ for the company but no real pay-off on those characters or storylines for the reader.

I myself learned my lesson (FINALLY!) after all of the "52", "Countdown", and "Blackest Night" tie-ins I wasted my money on and only bought the 5 issues of "Flashpoint". But how many other readers were burned and jumped ship and did not return for the New 52?

I believe that all of the examples I've listed, while generating buzz and $$$ for DC slowly but surely alienated their core, long-time, "fanboy" readership. Not to say that "we" should be catered to....but I don't really think any new readers gained will ultimately make up for the readers lost who have stuck with the company through thick and a lot of thin lately for 30-40+ years. The new readers gained will not be long-term readers, especially if DC continues to fly by the seat of their (trunk-less) pants. Once the novelty wears off they will be gone.

[The Toyroom]

And this is why Marvel has been dominant for so long...now I've been more of a DC guy for a long time, and say why you will about Marvel's share of mis-fires and mistakes (One More Day) and buzz generating screw-overs (The "deaths" of Captain America and Human Torch) and endless parade of mini-series and tie-ins (House of M, Civil War, Secret Invasion, etc)...BUT...At the end of the day in the mainstream 616 Marvel Universe, Spider-Man is still Peter Parker and although his continuity has experienced some retcons along the way it is still the same Spider-Man that was introduced way back in "Amazing Fantasy" #15. There's not a Golden Age Spidey, a Silver Age Spidey, a post-Crisis Spidey, a post-Zero Hour Spidey, a post-Infinite Crisis Spidey, or a New 52 Spidey...there's just one. If you want another, there's the Ulimate universe for that. Which is what DC should have done. Create their modern interpretations for the digital age with low print runs on the floppy versions and continue to print the old versions for the diehards with reduced print runs for those...keeping the core titles and spinoffs to a minimum...

[Riffster]

just read this
As for the other changes in Earth Two, the cover to the first issue of that comic seems to indicate that, with Escrima sticks, that’s Nightwing – Dick Grayson – in the Batman Earth Two get up. In that case, could be also have Superboy in the Superman role and even the long lost Donna Troy as Earth Two Wonder Woman? And exactly what kind of Justice Society are we getting anyway?

[Mego Magyar]

Honestly, I haven't read a new superhero comic in 20 years. And every time I see something like this, I remember why. Neither Marvel or DC has any respect for their characters' histories anymore. These aren't the characters I grew up with, and frankly I have no interest in them. I honestly think that their comics will eventually just die from lack of readers. The characters will live on in movies, TV, cartoons, video games, toys, etc (luckily Warner and Disney are big multi-media companies) but with the comics I just see desperate attempts to keep a readership when older readers just eventually get fed up and quit and there is a severe lack of younger readers coming in (for numerous reasons) to carry the torch of fandom. It's sad really....

My feeling exactly. I was a big collector up until 10-15 years ago when I stopped for a while, I got back in reading some after a few years but that only lasted a few years and I stopped again. It's things like this that made me stop and why I probably will never start reading new stuff again.

As to lack of younger readers - for 40+ years comics were written for the younger reader then when the industry found it could make BIG buck on it's older reader with the "collectible" market ( multiple cover, etc.. ) they changed and wanted to be "grown up" in what the produced. That's fine but then you loose what made you in the first place. Add the higher cover price and lack of places to by a comic ( when I was a kid there were 3 mom & pop stores in my small town that had spinner racks and now I rarely see a comic outside of a comic shop ) and I too think the industry's time is limited.

[samurainoir]

DC's Claims about the recent Neilson ratings survey about their readership...
DC Universe: The Source DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 PRODUCT LAUNCH RESEARCH RESULTS

* The launch of DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 galvanized the traditional fan base for superhero comic books: male readers, who were already—or have at one time been—comic book fans.

* The survey results are not a reflection of all comic book readers or the broader audience for graphic novels. This was a survey of consumers who specifically purchased DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 comic books, either in print or digital format.

* DC COMICS: THE NEW 52 appealed mainly to avid fans and lapsed readers. More than 70% of those surveyed categorized themselves as avid fans who visit the comic book store every week. More than a quarter of in-store consumers were lapsed readers. The survey indicates that 5% of those polled identified themselves as first-time, new readers.

* More than 50% of DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 readers were between the ages of 13 and 34. And more than 50% of in-store DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 consumers had an annual income of $60K or less. The data supports and arguably validates our philosophy of holding the line at $2.99 which DCE is committed to maintaining.

* The majority of titles generated strong interest and likely reader retention.

* Avid Fans purchased up to 20 titles out of the 52 titles.

* Digital: of dual mode readers, digital is far from replacing print.

* Impulse buys: Up to four-in-ten respondents reported that a NEW 52 title they were interested in (at a physical store location) was out of stock. Nearly two-thirds made a spontaneous purchase.

[thunderbolt]

wow, 5 percent new readers. Wonder how that compares to the old readers lost?

[The Toyroom]

5%...what a freakin' joke. How many of that 5% will be retained after the initial hoopla dies down?

[The Toyroom]

* Impulse buys: Up to four-in-ten respondents reported that a NEW 52 title they were interested in (at a physical store location) was out of stock. Nearly two-thirds made a spontaneous purchase.

Now I'm only going by my local comic shop and what they told me...They were sold out of every New 52 title the first two weeks in a matter of two-three days.

But from what they told me they ordered low on a lot of titles because DC offered them no previews of the books in order for them to gauge customers' interest. So it was a blind order based on sign-up sheets they had in-store for each title.

Now as we all know every customer didn't sign up so if orders were low to begin with and customers who didn't sign up had to purchase the few remaining copies left on rack that is going to make a sell-out happen.

In addition, when a lot of the higher profile titles like "Justice League", "Action Comics", "Green Lantern", "Aquaman" sold out quickly, customers ended up spontaneously purchasing bottom-tier titles like "Batwing", "Men of War", "Blackhawks", etc. because, as my LCS put it, "they were afraid to go home empty-handed". So it wasn't that they decided to make an impulse buy based on a book that caught their eye...rather it was out of necessity of sorts, as that was all that was left on the racks and they wanted to experience a least something from the New 52.

Now the unfortunate side-effect of all this as far as me and my LCS is concerned is that for the first four weeks when I went there on a Saturday morning (as I usually did) any book I was interested in was already gone. The first two weeks there was absolutely NOTHING. Weeks 3 and 4 there were some of the mediocre books but I did not give in to the impulse buy. I went home empty-handed for a month. I didn't even pick up any Marvel books as I was disgusted by my whole experience. My LCS simply could not keep up with the titles because they could never get a handle on them in the first place. I fault them somewhat but DC bears the bulk of the blame IMO. So, as a result, I took my business from my LCS that I've been going to for probably over 25 years and started ordering on-line where I haven't missed anything I've been interested in. I feel bad but it started to be a wasted effort to drive 25 minutes each way to come home with nothing. So I have to wonder how many other people ended up taking their business elsewhere?

[EMCE Hammer]

I've decided that this is all part of a scheme to sell more trades of the classic stuff. There's probably a better margin there. Suck us in for a couple issues of the new stuff, then **** us off so that we fall back to picking up trades and collections of the classics. Sure it sounds stupid, but even stupid is relative.

[samurainoir]

5%...what a freakin' joke. How many of that 5% will be retained after the initial hoopla dies down?

I'm just trying to figure out what the point of releasing these figures based on the comic shop sales, since it's given that this is just cannibalizing the existing audience market share once again... With no true insight into digital where the growth would be most desirable for new readership from cost to production ratios.

Then it occurs to me the point of neilson ratings to begin with... advertising. Sure, we know comic readership s mostly men, but note they are specifically highlighting the portion that is in the sweet spot of 13-34. for all we know the other 50% is men 35-55... But not worth highlighting. You don't sell say, beer ads in comic books, it's video game ads. Women obviously negligabe for advertisers as well it appears.... Although that s the stat I'd be interested in seeing. 5% women readership? 10%?

No ads in trade paperbacks... Are there ads in the digital versions?

[The Toyroom]

I'm just trying to figure out what the point of releasing these figures based on the comic shop sales, since it's given that this is just cannibalizing the existing audience market share once again... With no true insight into digital where the growth would be most desirable for new readership from cost to production ratios.

Then it occurs to me the point of neilson ratings to begin with... advertising. Sure, we know comic readership s mostly men, but note they are specifically highlighting the portion that is in the sweet spot of 13-34. for all we know the other 50% is men 35-55... But not worth highlighting. You don't sell say, beer ads in comic books, it's video game ads. Women obviously negligabe for advertisers as well it appears.... Although that s the stat I'd be interested in seeing. 5% women readership? 10%?

No ads in trade paperbacks... Are there ads in the digital versions?

Very good point.