The New 52 #1's... your thoughts?

[ctc]

>I think the key there is "sometimes physically".

....with the caveat "many people." It's the sort of plausible deniability that's always bothered me about DC and Marvel.... if you think about it, BOTH of us are right. Or rather, COULD be; depending on how we want to look at it.

I grew up with the undergrounds, and a lot of the books I like have caught HUGE amounts of flak for blatant portrayals of sex and violence, and that's what's appealed to me about them; not 'cos of the shock value or titilation; but because you don't have this sort of ambiguity. It happened or it didnt, and you deal with it. You HAVE to deal with it.... it's right there! And one way or another, they WOULD deal with it in the book. Hence why I refer to it as more honest than this sort of thing.

Now; to me, the NEW panels aren't that different. They're painted with the modern "GRRR!!!! ANGRY!!!" kind of brush, but the core is still there. "Tamaranians don't feel the need to edit emotionally and don't feel self concious about expressing said feelings." (Except when they Wolverine out in a battle rage, or their free and expressive society makes 'em choke back said feelings as part of an arranged marriage.... but that sort of thing plays back to the "....and they never really deal with the issue...." problem I mentioned.) While there's less ambiguity to the new stuff, I suspect that it's another non-issue; that these sort of wacky hyjinx will pop up whenever the plot slows, and go away when the become incionvenient.... such as when the "but; I've ALWAYS loved you" storyling rears it's inevitable head.

>see if it holds up for 6 months to a year

Yeah, but like I mentined before; I think that IS the plan. By the time the novelty starts to wear they'll be hyping the NEXT reboot.

>I'm sure when Bob Kane and Bill Finger created Batman back in the 30s as a Creature of the Night Avenger they always envisioned long-term when he'd be knocking boots with Catwoman...

Nah; he was too busy dropping people to their death.

Don C.

[The Toyroom]

^ Right, a lot of these books won't maintain their readers after the initial fuss...

[thunderbolt]

Its big because its the flavor of the month, see if it holds up for 6 months to a year.

[BlackKnight]

I Finally got around to getting a few of these books today ...

So far I've only read a few of them ...

Batgirl }

Strong Book, Very Strong Opening imo. This book will shine with Simone . I wasn't too crazy about the suit ..., I like my Babs with Blue&Grey ... but I'll deal with it.

Red Hood & The OutLaws }

I really liked this book too . Jason Todd and Roy Harper make a Fun pair ofwhich could rival Lawton & Blake . Fun Stuff for me, Perhaps this is my New Secret Six book.

I read my 3 Lantern Guy books too. ... I still have Batman & JLI TO read. So far all my picks are keepers ... Looking forward to Aquaman & Firestorm next week.

You know we all come here to a Message board, and many of them on the net ..., and ***** about this new direction , Suits and whatever. But I was talking to my LCG Today, and a couple of other retailers, ..., and this stuff is huge right now. More people are buying , and have come back to buying, than The Bitter Quiter's out there.

[The Toyroom]

^ Classic Perez!

[samurainoir]

[The Toyroom]

I'm sure when Bob Kane and Bill Finger created Batman back in the 30s as a Creature of the Night Avenger they always envisioned long-term when he'd be knocking boots with Catwoman...

[VintageMike]

Haven't read Catwoman yet this all seems pretty obvious to me. The "new" DC is aimed to get "new" readers. New being college kids and people in their 20's
I'm sure they think "raging hormones". That's what they are shooting for. Honestly as adult reader this stuff does not bother me. Because we grew up as with many of these characters as kids I think there is a tendency to put them on some kind of purity pedestal. As long as as plausible for the character (which I think it is for these two)
and it's only a few pages of the book it's fine. Add to the fact these are not straight "good guy" books but characters in a gray area and it seems a good place to do it.
My only caveat is there should be enough diversity in the books to go around. Have some with some without.
Finally we have to remember "our" versions of the characters have now been safely tucked away. These are new versions with new traits.

[Earth 2 Chris]

I think the key there is "sometimes physically". Over her published history, she's only been romantically linked with maybe four characters. The character espoused love for her friends often, but she was only "physical" with a very few. A far cry from "Do you want to have sex with me?".

Chris

[ctc]

>Kory did show lots of cleavage and other body parts. But she was NOT into casual sex.

Well.... in that artcle from a few posts back, the casual thing is exactly what's implied by her speeches. ("we allow ourselves to love many people, always emotionally sometimes physically") But it was presented in the mode of the day. It's callede "Love," but more in the sense of "free love" or "making love." It means sex, but the vernacualr of the time precluded saying as much. Her first speech is almost verbatum the explanation the Free Love folks gave for their movement back in the early 70's.

Which is kinda my conundrum with stuff like this. I appreciate the honesty of the modern presentation a bit more, but I find it equally as shallow. The older panels reek of the same “plausible deniability” DC and Marvel have always presented their “mature” material with. The newer stuff puts it right out there, but judging from precedent I bet it all goes away as soon as the plot requires it.

Don C.

[johnnystorm]

In my opinion Dick should be the object of affection for women, but he shouldn't be a bed hopper. I think Devin Grayson really wrecked the Nightwing series.

Chris

Thought it was weird when they had the hookup between Nightwing & the Huntress. On Earth-2 they were practically brother & sister.

Creepy in that Brady kids sorta way.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Yes, guys Kory did show lots of cleavage and other body parts. But she was NOT into casual sex. That was not part of her character in any incarnation. She was attracted to Dick, who rebuffed her at first, in his attempt to be more like Batman. Then she fell for a guy who was actually a HIVE member. He died and she was VERY upset. If she was just hopping from bed to bed why would she care? Then of course her and Dick had a long relationship, she had to marry someone she didn't love to save Tamaran (and she didn't shack up with him either). I think later she married another Tamaranean and had a kid who both died when Tamaran blew up.

This whole "I just screw what's in front of me" is totally new to the character. Yes, the DCU was rebooted so it's fair game. I know. But to take a strong character like that and make her a perverted male fantasty bimbo is just wrong. I know she was a TNA girl, but she did have quite a bit of substance behind that "balloon bod" as Terra called her.

Chris

[ctc]

>you do realize Kory was always about free love and the like...

....and the T&A....

>i think it's much to do about nothing..

I think the problem is that the character isn't that different, but the way those ideas are expressed in a superhero comic has changed so to the long term fans it feels different and is therefore wrong. As someone on the periphery, )and therefore not widely invested in the character, book, series or genre in general,) I don't see this version as a radical departure from the other. They're a little more honest about it, but the character was always exploiative and shallow.

Don C.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Agreed on Starfire. The cartoon version was a more simplified version of the original Wolfman/Perez character.

In my opinion Dick should be the object of affection for women, but he shouldn't be a bed hopper. I think Devin Grayson really wrecked the Nightwing series.

Chris

[boynightwing]

I was put off by how they wrote Starfire. Aside from being nothing more then a piece of ***, she also doesn't care enough about humans to remember one from another? I don't like that. My favorite Starfire is from the cartoon series. She was adorable. There was one episode where they're all at a night club and these two guys come up to her and ask if she's diggin the scene. She tells them she didn't bring a shovel. Awesome.

^I didn't mind Devin Grayson making Dick a bit of a man ho. It gave him that Captain Kirk/Will Riker feel. Made me laugh.