New JLA "Relaunch" Picture

[boynightwing]

18-34 is the demographic? I just turned 35...

[Cosmicman]

And what really ticks me off, is that they haven't decided what to do with the JSA yet. Last I heard, they weren't planning to have JSA book for a while. I'm really going to miss that book every month. I wish they would just have someone write stories about them, set in WWII, not worrying about where it fits in continuity. This would be the perfect opportunity to do something that I've always wished for.

I think later down the road in this semi rebooted universe you may find the JSA mysteriously returned to their Earth 2 with no explanation and nobody will noticed.

[Bizarro Amy]

There have always been things I wish would change about certain characters, especially Wonder Woman. This isn't the change I'm looking for, especially with the new creative team. I won't pretend the renumbering doesn't bother me, but I could get over that. I just wish DC would start pushing their writers to just create good stories, no gimmicks, no universe-altering events.
And what really ticks me off, is that they haven't decided what to do with the JSA yet. Last I heard, they weren't planning to have JSA book for a while. I'm really going to miss that book every month. I wish they would just have someone write stories about them, set in WWII, not worrying about where it fits in continuity. This would be the perfect opportunity to do something that I've always wished for.

[argent007]

Chris,
Well said.

My concern with both Marvel and DC is the number of titles for a particular team or character and the number of places a character is supposed to be in during the same month's comics. With 52 titles coming out, this issue is going to continue.

I'm sure DC has run the numbers, but if I were to do a relaunch I would put out a lot less titles per month, but also do a few anthology titles.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Poochie...nice analogy there! Well said.

Chris

[Werewolf]

I'm not seeing a strong creative surge behind all of these rather random changes. It seems very editorially driven, and the creators who have been spoken too do not seem legitimately enthusiastic. If anything, they've been borderline defensive.

I agree. This does not come off as an artistic or creative decision. This is a corporate decision, in my opinion. It's like some random out of touch exec got the idea to "Poochie" the DC Universe by trying to make it artifically hip and trendy. The "extreme" and "edgy" 90s live again.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Look, I can accept change, when it is well done, to my favorite characters. I've accepted Batman in body armor in the movies for years, despite the fact that he never wore it in the comics up to that point. I accepted Byrne's revamp of Superman. I accepted Wally West as the Flash. I even accepted Kyle Rayner as GL despite the horrible storyline that introduced him.

But based on the editorial direction DC has been going since DiDio took over, I can't have any confidence in this relaunch, based on what I'm seeing. "Floundering" is a good word to describe things at DC. I'm not seeing a strong creative surge behind all of these rather random changes. It seems very editorially driven, and the creators who have been spoken too do not seem legitimately enthusiastic. If anything, they've been borderline defensive.

This reeks of desperation, and not well-thought out desperation, I might add. It really does seem that DiDio and Lee locked themselves into an office for a week, mapped out all the changes, with Lee redesigning everyone, and then they called up everyone in Lee's address book.

If the DCU was relaunching from the get-go with strong creators on every title I'd be right behind it, young or old. But this ain't it.

Chris

[Werewolf]

But.... do they have a significant number of female readers?

Not only are they ignoring their current loyal female readership they are also not even trying to get new female readers in this relaunch. If by some chance this relaunch nets them more female readers it's nothing they are trying for or even caring about. The 18 to 34 male demographic is all that matters to them.

DC Women Kicking *** - DC Comics to female readers: we're just not that into you

[ctc]

>We are not all Walter Matthau Grumpy Old Men deathly afraid of change.

No, but this isn't the only place I've seen comments. There is a fair bit of "that's not the good ol' Batman" thinking that makes the rounds here, but yeah; for the most point it's pretty subdued. I tend to get overly-sensitive to it 'cos of the amount I'm exposed to.

>Giving the characters dated 90s style Image designs isn't fresh or modern.

I dunno if I'd say they were quite 90's style. I can see touches of it, but no shoulder pads or bandoliers of pouches. (Next year maybe?) But they're not particularly novel. The armour has a kind of "video game cut scene" feel.

>Slapping skin tight painted on pants on WW doesn't erase or fix decades cheese-cake

....'specially if half of those pants are fishnet....

>Their loyal female readers don't figure into this relauch and female artists and writers are grossly under represented.

But.... do they have a significant number of female readers? I know that's been a failing of the superheroes since the 70's; limited female readership, but has that changed? It sounds like they're adopting the TV approach, where you don't seek to actively court a new audience but instead seek to maintain the ones you have.

I wonder.... who is their audience? I haven't seen a survey or anything of that ilk for a long time.

Don C.

[Werewolf]

There seems to come a point for the vast majority of patrons of the nerdly arts wherein you’re done. A new idea will NEVER appeal to you.

This we are all grumpy old fogies stuff is getting tiresome. Of course there are still those stereotypical basement dwelling fanboys out there that will nerd rage over every little thing. But there is no age limit on that and younger people are just as likely if not more to nerd rage. Give the people here some credit. I haven't seen any drama or hysterics in this thread.

Many of the new designs are legitimately bad. Giving the characters dated 90s style Image designs isn't fresh or modern. Slapping skin tight painted on pants on WW doesn't erase or fix decades of cheese-cake fanboy service on female characters when her breasts are more exposed than ever. DC has publically stated that this relaunch is specifically targeting 18 to 34 year old males. Their loyal female readers don't figure into this relaunch and female artists and writers are grossly under represented. So this whole put pants on the female superheroes mantra becomes all the more hypocritical.

Time to change up the stereotypical insult of your fellow nerds here. We are not all Walter Matthau Grumpy Old Men deathly afraid of change. People dislike change when it is legitimately bad and and reaks of change for change sake. For example, I didn't dislike the 2007 Transformer movie because it was different than the Transformers I grew up with. I disliked it because it was a terrible movie.

[ctc]

>us old-timers can't except and HATE change.

There seems to come a point for the vast majority of patrons of the nerdly arts wherein you’re done. A new idea will NEVER appeal to you. A slightly different one won’t, either. I don’t understand it, and I think it’s kinda sad since the nerdly arts are (supposedly) predicated on imagination, which almost by necessity would require new ideas.

>I like Jim Lee's art, and respect his talents. But these designs are weak.

JIM LEE PILE-ON!!! WOOOO!!!!!

....but seriously though; I was never a fan of Lee’s stuff. His newer work is better than his old, but he’s still got some quirks that bug me. Like how everyone has the same face. That sort of thing drives me up the wall. But that’s just me. In this case the designs are kinda.... well; blah. But in a weird sorta way. They’re different. Sort of. The ribbed costumes lend a through-line to the designs, but they seem needlessly busy and non-functional. IS it armour? Are they seams? Secret compartments where the hidden weapons pop out of? If it IS armour, why did Hal armour just his shoulders? Why is Superman wearing it, and why ISN’T Aquaman? Maybe it’s like 90's crosshatching; the more popular you are, the more you get.

>They seem to be change for change sake with little or no thought, hence Superman's armor and Flash's armored boots.

Well.... I bet there WAS thought.... “Masamune Shirow is AWESOME!!!!” or something to that effect.... but there was thought.

>This in-between approach is just coming across as a mess.

Again.

I still think that if they really, REALLY feel the NEED to change stuff they should just do it. No fanfare, no interarcing storyline, just do what you’re gonna and get on with life. Like they used to. Casual readers aren’t really gonna care wether or not Batman’s phone number is still the same as it was pre-Infinite Reboots, or if Superman’s uncle used to be Funnyman on Earth-Stupid. And, as demonstrated by the first line I quoted; serious readers will never be pleased. They’ll still buy though. I have a sneaking suspicion that Marvel and DC have been running on hype the last 10 years; so that every galactic, “world changing nothing will be the same again!” event spikes sales a bit, seeing a drop-off as it plays out but sustaining things until the next one.

Don C.

[Earth 2 Chris]

I like Jim Lee's art, and respect his talents. But these designs are weak. They seem to be change for change sake with little or no thought, hence Superman's armor and Flash's armored boots.

The more I see of this the more I wish DC had just gone for broke and relaunched from square one. That way they could say this is a new universe to explore, but left the old one (or old "ones") intact to go back to if needed. The fact that almost everyone is rebooting from the scratch EXCEPT for GL and Batman is just nuts. I know GL is the hot book right now, and DC has to kiss Morrison's arse and not erase his work, but it makes this whole thing reek of bad planning.

If they HAD to reboot/relaunch, then I think they should have gone with one of two choices.

a.) The aforementioned complete reboot. Start with the first appearance of all of these characters. Superman, Batman, WW, GL, Flash, Aquaman...you name it. Totally rebuild the DCU. Invite the BEST creators out there to retell their favorite stories with a new spin, or just go off on their own.

b.) Make sure all of the monthlies tie up their story arcs, and then soft relaunch with the BEST creators handling the series from then on out, focusing on the most classic aspects of the characters, without heavy-handed continuity and never-ending storylines. Make the books ACCESSIBLE.

This in-between approach is just coming across as a mess. Add to that the lackluster creative teams, and dated 90s Image redesigns on characters whose looks are genuine classics, and you have absolutely no interest from me.

Chris

[thunderbolt]

And there you go again with Jim Lee bashing...you just can't help yourself can ya Joe? Why do you start up a "how much you hate Tom Welling and Smallville" thread while you're at it.

Just stating facts, Dane. If this bombs, Lee will get some of the blame, along with Didio. And why single me out? Pretty sure Mr. Lee was bashed by a few others in this thread.

[Bizarro Amy]

What stinks is that it isn't just DC that's going to hurt if this flops, but thousands of local comic shops. Everyone is putting on a brave face at this point, but this move is really going to screw them over if it doesn't work. I just don't have much confidence that the stores will gain enough casual readers to make up for the lost longtime fans who either won't be buying at all (me) or the ones who will put up with it for a year or so then give up.

I'm going to feel like a genuine heel about not supporting our local comic book store. But we've been going there for years and guys that run it have always been quick to say "If you don't like it, don't buy it."

[The Bat]

I think one of the problems is...us old-timers can't except and HATE change. Oh my God, they changed Wonder Woman's costume! These characters will survive this latest reincarnation.

With characters that have been around for so long...occasionally the comic book companies feel the need to update them, or re-tell their origins. This always causes a sir with the Fanboys...which is what Dc wants, to grab people's attention. If it doesn't work...then they'll just have another "crisis" and put everything back to normal.

Me...I'm just going to set back and watch the Fur fly.