DC's New 52 Titles: One Fan's Opinion

[StrangeVisitor]

Hawk and Dove is a cool concept but one that never lasts very long…Rob Liefeld art not withstanding

Why does anyone in comics hire this guy?

[ctc]

>I think we may have DC Implosion 2.0.

Y’know.... it’s definitely possible.... but I think there’s a chance it could go the other way. This stuff would do fine if you could get it out of the comic shops and out where normal people could see it; especially if they see a whole magazine rack of DC books. “Say; that company must be doing quite well, I should patronize their periodicals....” Unfortunately they’re still working off the comic shop crowd paradigm, and therein it’ll stay.

Going digital might help. It’s a chance to reach new readers, and there’ll be enough buzz that folks might be curious. (ESPECIALLY if it’s a slow news day.) I think what might spank them there is the price: the digital copies would have to be SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than print, and cheap enough for folks to make an impulse buy.

‘Course, even the comic shop sequestering might not be that bad either. In the last few years comic shops have been worming their way into the consciousness of the public; most notable as fixtures on more than a few tv shows. It’s possible that comic shops may become pertinent again because of it; especially if the hype in September hits at the right time.

>For this to really work, DC should reboot everything. Start the whole mess over from scratch or possibly use the first 6 issues to set a loose back history for character that are more established.

Well.... maybe. The problem is, we all know it can/will be rearranged again in a year or two. (Especially if sales are low.) I think the OTHER problem is, there’s been WAY too much emphasis on origins, restarts and retellings for a while now. Every new film, tv show, comic, whatever feels the need to retell the origin. It’s not necessary. These characters aren’t that tough to figure out. Old comics had a blurb on the opening page that explained it all in one or two sentences; that’s all you need. Anything more detracts from the meat of the book.

>Why does anyone in comics hire this guy?

Name recognition. Here’s a sobering thought: we’re coming up on a time when folks will be nostalgic for his stuff. “Oh man! I found that Liefield 501 ad on youtube! AWESOME!”

‘Course, it’ll be funny to see how the usual gripes of the hardcore fans translate: “He SUCKS now! Always drawin’ feet and hands.... and where are all the lines? REAL superheroes have crosshatching! And pouches! And what’s with the new Cable’s SMALL shoulder pads! Comics SUCK now!”

Don C.

[Earth 2 Chris]

If DC REALLY wanted to relaunch, and keep these characters relevant to their current audience, and attract new readers, maybe a "less is more" approach would have been better. The first "new" issue would have a several page recap of just the very basic back story to get them up to speed, and then launch into a series of adventures that didn't even need continuity. Kind of like the "Marvel Adventures" books. DC really needs those. Even before this reboot, I barely recognized some of my old favorite characters. Now there are these new guys running around with their names.

And for pete's sake, solicit stories from some proven NAMES. I mean Morrison, Jurgens, Johns and Perez are great. That's the caliber we need (even if I don't like Morrison's Batman). Post-Crisis was a soft relaunch for DC, but they had the biggest names at the time working on stuff. Byrne. Perez. Miller. Mazzuchelli. Baron. Guice. Giffen. DeMatties, etc. As I said before, the rest of these seem like random assignments.

I think this COULD have worked. But DiDio hasn't been much for really thinking things through before sending stuff off to print. Countdown and Final Crisis, two series where the one led into the other, and they didn't even make coherent sense, comes to mind.

Chris

[number 6]

As I look at this line up of titles, I keep asking: why are anthology books still off the table?

I know Jenette Kahn was opposed to them (though I don't know why) and finally had them all axed back in the 80's. But why are they still not an option today, 30 years later?

I mean, in theory, anotholgy books seem like such a good idea for so many characters. Swamp Thing, Green Arrow, Batgirl, Supergirl, Hawk and Dove, etc. are popular enough characters that DC is motivated to keep bringing them back. And they do sell some books, just not enough to maintain their own title. Seems like if you take 2 or 3 characters that sell in low amounts, give them each a short chapter in an anthology book, that book would sell reasonably well. If one of the characters starts to prove unpopular for a time, rather than start and restart his own book, he could be swaped out the anthology book with another character.

Detective and Action, up until the mid- to late 80's, had a back-up feature. Why not make Supergirl a back-up in Action and Batgirl a back-up in Detective? Swamp Thing, I, Vampire and Frankenstein could have short chapters along with some short, non-character driven short horror stories in a House of Secrets/Mystery book. Green Arrow, Atom, etc. chould share a book like Adventure Comics.

I just don't understand why anthology books just aren't an option anymore.

[ctc]

>why are anthology books still off the table?

It's a good question, with no readily apparent explanation. Almost everywhere else on Earth anthology comics are the norm; they were here too, but saw a decline in the 70's. It could be because branding became such a big deal in the 70's, so folks didn't like the idea of paying full price for a book that might only contain 1/3 of the character they like. It might be possible to market them to the non-comic shop crowd. The kids like their Shonen Jump, and when they brought it over 10 years or so ago they used it to test the waters as to what the audience wanted to read. That'd be GREAT for DC, since it seems like they're fishing for the next big thing.... but I think for the fans cost would be an issue. SJ is $5 for 250 pages of comic, so even if you only like one or two of the stories you don't feel ripped off and you're likely to read the others just 'cos you already bought the book. DC would end up charging close to $5 for 24 pages; 1/10 the material, making readers 1/10 as likely to give it a go. The digital thing might be a good idea, but only if they can keep the costs down.

After reading Bakuman (a comic about the Japanese comic industry) I suspect there may be editorial concerns with an anthology book: what titles do you put in it, how do you juggle them, when do you change them up.... The Japanese use weekly questionaires from the readers, and have a system in place for determining popularity; but that's all labour intensive, and would require the institution of some sort of fan exchange that we don't quite have here. (Although you COULD use the internets, if you put up an actual, useful questionaire and offer some sort of incentive for submitting it.)

Don C.

[jimbutsu]

There's also the not insignificant matter of the numbers. Highly engaged comic book fans in the US are a population of maybe 100,000 (and that's being extremely generous; it's more likely a bit more than half that), while Japan has engaged readers in the millions and casual readers probably in the tens of millions. The numbers just don't support doing much of anything interactive with comic book readers in the US.

[Brue]

thanks for the write up.

i haven't read anything for several years ad it sounds like there is no reason to start now.

[MegoSteve]

What kills me is the possibility that the new Superman costume may be the one that's used in the upcoming movie. Yeccch.

[PNGwynne]

I'm So there on Aquaman ....

All in all ... DC ..., I'm just sorta not happy.

I'm with you there, brother.

[ctc]

>There's also the not insignificant matter of the numbers. Highly engaged comic book fans in the US are a population of maybe 100,000 (and that's being extremely generous; it's more likely a bit more than half that),

You're right, and the problem the Big Two and a Half have had for a LONG time is that they've continued to play to that group specificly. A group that's been on a steady decline for more than 15 years. The reason the Japanese stuff took off here is because it was marketed to, and appealed to typically NON-comic fans. That's why "Prince of Tennis" is my favourie example of comic book sales "***?" To a N. American comic fan it's the most counter-intuitive idea for a book EVER! It's a guy who plays tennis. Not a guy who plays tennis and is a superspy, or secret alien, or has weird powers, or is from the future; just some clown playing tennis. And yet, it's sold the equivalent of 420+ issues of a standard American comic! Obvioulsy there's a market out there that NOBODY saw coming....

So the trick for the superhero guys is to find that audience. The problem is that they keep doing the same things, over and over; the things that have caused their core audience to diminish: reboots, variants, novelty writers/artists.... And they keep using the same sales techniques: sell to comic shops.

How many books on this list would appeal to anybody who's not already a DC fan? How many rely too much on the reader wanting to see what's happening with a character they already know? (Supergirl's back! And THIS time she's angry! Or emo! Or somesuch....) How much of it is meant to appeal to the "get in on the ground floor!" speculator mentality? (A group STILL smarting from the "90 different covers!!!" scams of the 90's.) None of that's going to matter to a new reader, especially considering how many of your potential audience grew up under a completely different comic book paradigm: where dead is dead, and back issue compilations are readily available.

>The numbers just don't support doing much of anything interactive with comic book readers in the US.

I would ESSENTIALLY disagree with that. I can remember a lot of small, independant companies issuing questionaires a lot, and webcomic rings are ALWAYS having votes for their comics. So it can be done, but I think the editorial staff would REALLY have to shift gears. And I think ego and laziness might prevent that. Ego especially. (How many editors do you think dismissed "Prince of Tennis" as "just more of that stupid Jap crap!" even though it was outpacing their books?) Laziness plays it's part too: they know the current non-event will spike sales just enough to keep things going until next year's big non-event. Hell; even with this "52" thing they've ALREADY started gearing up for the next one.... in September!

Don C.

[The Toyroom]

The results from the CBR Readers Poll: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=32809

Justice League, Aquaman, Action Comics, Green Lantern, and Batman all had the highest % in the "Absolutely" column as far as if you'd buy the title.

EVERYTHING ELSE had its highest % in the "Not At All" column!

As I predicted, Aquaman would be in the Top 5. He's had a great build-up and has a loyal fan base who have been dying for years to have him shine in the spotlight again.

Justice League is a no-brainer as is Action Comics...both have name recognition writers as well as being the "ground floor" for this relaunch, especially since they are supposed to be set 5 years earlier and tell the backstory of the DCnU history.

Batman and Green Lantern appear from solictitations to pick up where they left off.

But everything else is a crap shoot and apparently readers are saying they aren't willing to give it a chance. Of course, people can say one thing and then still actually buy the titles, so who knows.

But on paper it doesn't look good from the get-go.

Oh, "I Vampire" was the lowest ranked with 68% of the 10,000+ voters saying they wouldn't buy the book "at all"...

[Random Axe]

Dear lord, look at all of those high percentage "not at all" votes. If that doesn't make DC editorial a little nervous then nothing ever will. Why couldn't DC have put together these talents in their existing universe? This appears to be a train wreck of epic proportions.

[samurainoir]

I honestly don't think that dc currently has a strong enough writing stable to pull a relaunch like this off.

We've seen tima and time again for example when Geoff johns jumps off a successful book, sales plummet. The only other a-lister that guarantees sales is Morrison.

Meanwhile, former dc writers were cherry picked by marvel just as their careers were taking off. We've got guys like Ed brubaker and Jason aaron who are now headlining top selling marvel titles, after paying their dues at dc/vertigo.

Jeph loeb, mark waid, Greg rucka have all made their way over to marvel after successful runs at dc.

In return, dc has only been able to lure jms over from marvel, with mixed results.

[jimbutsu]

>The numbers just don't support doing much of anything interactive with comic book readers in the US.

I would ESSENTIALLY disagree with that. I can remember a lot of small, independant companies issuing questionaires a lot, and webcomic rings are ALWAYS having votes for their comics. So it can be done, but I think the editorial staff would REALLY have to shift gears. And I think ego and laziness might prevent that. Ego especially. (How many editors do you think dismissed "Prince of Tennis" as "just more of that stupid Jap crap!" even though it was outpacing their books?) Laziness plays it's part too: they know the current non-event will spike sales just enough to keep things going until next year's big non-event. Hell; even with this "52" thing they've ALREADY started gearing up for the next one.... in September!

Couple quick notes:
1) Your argument against my point actually reinforces my point (stay with me, I know that sounds weird). The small publishers and webcomic rings are not Time Warner. Time Warner isn't going to do much of anything to reach out to a core of about 50,000 people, whereas these smaller publishers or webcomic folks would give their eye teeth for those kinds of numbers.

2) I doubt anyone was thinking that about Prince of Tennis. The trick with Japanese media is that it is extremely transient; with very few exceptions even the most popular of Japanese comics properties come and go within a decade, while american editors, especially corporate-owned Marvel and DC editors, are trying to create generation-spanning franchises with every new character or title. They didn't dismiss it at all- they just knew it had a beginning and an end.

[ctc]

>Justice League, Aquaman, Action Comics, Green Lantern, and Batman all had the highest % in the "Absolutely" column as far as if you'd buy the title.
>EVERYTHING ELSE had its highest % in the "Not At All" column!

I wonder why that is? Brand loyalty? Although, I can understand being leary of anything with “vampire” in the title....

>Time Warner isn't going to do much of anything to reach out to a core of about 50,000 people, whereas these smaller publishers or webcomic folks would give their eye teeth for those kinds of numbers.

Very true, although it might not hurt for DC to look into something like this, especially as their numbers dwindle and it becomes more feasible to poll the readers.

>The trick with Japanese media is that it is extremely transient; with very few exceptions even the most popular of Japanese comics properties come and go within a decade,

True; most Japanese comics are written with an end in mind.... even if it’s a long time away. I think that’s important when considering the current N. American comic paradigms because I think a large percentage of the N. American audience has grown used to the idea of lasting consequence.

>while american editors, especially corporate-owned Marvel and DC editors, are trying to create generation-spanning franchises with every new character or title.

Well.... they’re gonna keep publishing it as long as they can. Superhero books are perpetual; owing to the idea that they’re franchised characters. I think these two points are what result in the problem the superheroes are having: they’re published under a perpetual paradigm, but their audience wants something NON-perpetual, with lasting, long-term consequences. Even the oldster fans complain about this.

I think it’s a holdover from the 80's they still haven’t shaken. The trick to a good perpetual story is that the HERO doesn’t change, the VILLAINS do. Peter Parker is ALWAYS gonna be Spiderman, but you can have someone else find the Green Goblin’s outfit. Since the 80's there’s been this need to make the heroes actual characters with depth and drama.... they’re not. They CAN’T be ‘cos that would require actual consequence, which necessitates actual change. Although you can get around THAT one as well, and they tried it a lot back in the day with the “new era” idea, wherein the character would start “a bold new chapter in *character x*’s life beginning in issue 100!” But even that’s problematic, since the time between “bold new chapters” grew shorter and shorter over the years, leading to today’s annual reboot of the universe.

Don C.