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**Werewolf** · Jun 11, '11, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by The Toyroom

Well a year of JMS’ nonsense was a real waste of time it seems. Wonder Woman is starting to get a real stench on her than was previously reserved for characters like Hawkman and Aqua man (sorry Arthur buddy I love ya man but you know it’s true).

The whole mess really was pointless when they planned on doing this anyway. I was going to go back to the title after JMS got bored and Wondy returned to normal. Now, meh, I know that's not going to happen. She is still stuck in a 90s pantsuit outfit but now in untraditional silver, with a silly choker to coordinate with the nehru collars of the guys. And why is she stuck in a pantsuit and Supergirl gets bare legs? So much for the mandate. Oh, well, it doesn't really matter.

You, know, I've endured all the depowering, stupid biker outfit, recent 90s jacket suit, etc. But it gets to a point, when you just feel apathy. Hopefully the new Wonder Woman will be treated with better care and repect than the one I loved and grew up with and will resonate with female readers. Girls need heroes too.

**BlackKnight** · Jun 11, '11, 2:10 AM

Dude .. I'm getting all the Lantern Books ...

So Jurgens on GA ..., No Booster ... I'll get the book because of Jurgens ..., sorta Bummed No More Booster. The Time Stream Stories are Endless ..., each 1 Jurgens was a part of , were some of my Favorite Stories in the last few Years.... I dunno what to think.

Teen Titans with Booth ..., I'll give it a shot.

I'm So there on Aquaman ....

I'll probably Give Firestorm , JLA, Deathstroke & Batgirl a Shot ....

Red Hood and the Outlaws seems like an Interesting Concept .... Perhaps thats my Secret Six Book , which I love. But I am really ****ed off at the Squad Idea, and no more Six ....

I dunno what I am more upset about ... Loosing Booster Gold with Jurgens..., or the Secret Six. Both books were on my pull list ... I only currently buy 7 titles a Month ... sorta Lame.

I'm not touching anything Superman witha 10 Foot Poll ..., but JLA .

All in all ... DC ..., I'm just sorta not happy.

**thunderbolt** · Jun 11, '11, 4:10 AM

Frankenstein, Action and Batman Inc or Liviathan or whatever it ends up being called. Will trade wait for all. I'd sample some digitally if they were cheaper for downloads. I'd try Deadman, OMAC and the Dark JLA if it were a buck chaper or so. Wonder if JSA, Booster, SHazam, etc are waiting in the wings to start up in 2012 with INC? Maybe they will be replacement titles when a lot of this CRAP tanks.

**Earth 2 Chris** · Jun 11, '11, 6:36 AM

I've been out of monthly books for a few years now, but I can honestly say NOTHING that has been solicited will motivate me to enter a comic shop.

I think DC has made a horrible tactical error with this relaunch. They have alienated the few diehard fans they had left, and are relying on nostalgia for two different comic companies (90s Marvel and early Image) to save them and attract new readers. I got news for you, DC isn't Marvel, the JLA isn't the X-Men, and most Image comics from the early 90s are best used as bird cage liners.

The creative teams on these are just...arbitrary. Despite a few solid names (Perez, Morrison, Jurgens, Johns) most of the rest are unknowns or old Marvel writers who disappeared off the radar 10 years ago. DC had a better showing of talent with "One Year Later" a few years back. That gave readers a good jumping on point, and good talent, and it apparently didn't set the world on fire. Although most of the A-listers jumped ship pretty quick.

It will be interesting to see how the panels go at SDCC this year. I can imagine a very hostile crowd to show up, or none at all.

With the mess DiDio has made of the DCU in his tenure, I can see why a reboot is necessary. I would have never imagined a reboot could have been worse than what was there before.

I'm reminded of DC's advertising slogan in the early 80s. Except I have to twist it around a bit:

"The NEW DC: There's No Stopping THEM Now!!!"

Chris

**The Toyroom** · Jun 11, '11, 7:20 AM

Originally posted by thunderbolt

Wonder if JSA, Booster, SHazam, etc are waiting in the wings to start up in 2012 with INC? Maybe they will be replacement titles when a lot of this CRAP tanks.

That's what I'm thinking....along with stuff like the rumored Darwyn Cooke Vigilante and the Kevin Maguire My Greatest Adventure. They'll have to have a back-up plan (you'd think anyway) when some of these titles tank very quickly.

**The Toyroom** · Jun 11, '11, 7:25 AM

Originally posted by Earth 2 Chris

The creative teams on these are just...arbitrary. Despite a few solid names (Perez, Morrison, Jurgens, Johns) most of the rest are unknowns or old Marvel writers who disappeared off the radar 10 years ago.

It almost seems like they knew that fan reaction to some of these reboots was going to be bad so they threw a few names on them like a Perez to appease them. Now Morrison definitely probably has a plan and I would assume was part of these discussions for the relaunch. But George seems like just a hired gun to draw interest and carry out DC's directive.

A lot of the other writers are either ex-Marvel guys who haven't been relevant in ages or new people who I've never heard of. If you're going to pull off something as potentially volatile and alienating as this, then you really need to have writers with a proven track record as well as a fan base to see it through.

**kingdom warrior** · Jun 11, '11, 9:34 AM

Personally I think they're beating a Dead horse......and just haven't come to full terms that comics just don't sell like they used to and maybe for a season Heroes are just not going to sell well.....

The 50's went through this when Horror and Crime comics outsold superhero comics by a large margin.......

Plus look how many freeking heros are getting titles that please come on is anyone really interested in? Mr.Terrific? really? really?
Video games and Music have completely cut into this market my son talks about video games like I talked about comics at his age.

He saves his money to get I tunes cards and is online playing with all his high school friends and there is never ever talk about heros. I even asked him did any of his friends see the X-men movie and he said no.......

I'm not saying that's every kid but there is a large market of kids that have dismissed comics and the teen market is not one to be ignored.

With hot games like Black Ops, Gears of War, Assassins Creed and so on.. why comics of these popular games or other concepts have not been tapped into is missing the boat entirely. it was always about whatever was hot to jump on and make money....at least attract YOUNG readers and maybe get them into buying comics with these titles......and sorry not talking about the built in 40 year olds buyers who still buy whatever is put out.....

Anytime I see cosmetic changes it always seems that in the age of stockholders, executives put the Gun up to the creative people and try to make them sell the product however they can.....and totally forget that comics are not perfumes. You just don't change the bottle and think it'll be alright.

There are easy answers...Hire the true talents that know how comic books work, lower your prices and cut down your titles per month........but tell that to executive who's living the high life and he'll cut your head........

**Riffster** · Jun 11, '11, 10:56 AM

I'm not happy about the lack of some titles and the disappearance of others but I'm not going to bury anything until I read them. Then if they suck I'll cancel subscriptions or transfer to ones I like.

**johnnystorm** · Jun 11, '11, 8:26 PM

All-Star Western with Jonah Hex MIGHT not be set only in Gotham...maybe that's just the opener. And I read somewhere that there will be back-ups in it featuring other DC western heroes. Probably where you'll see that Cooke Vig story.

Agree with your assesments of the line. It's not really cohesive. I think you're right about there never being a Titans before, which is why they can make Cyborg such a major character post Flashpoint. Bet he gets a new origin as well.
Wonder if that affects the Titans 'GAMES' graphic novel? It was solicited already wasn't it?

**The Toyroom** · Jun 11, '11, 9:07 PM

^ They've sort of travelled down this road before with the Titans...with Donna Troy and again with Beast Boy/Changeling when he was retconned outta the Doom Patrol...negating some great stories from the Wolfman/Perez era. And with Deathstroke getting a title again how does his origin change if there are no Titans? Same with Starfire over in the Outlaws book.

**The Toyroom** · Jun 11, '11, 11:37 PM

Take CBR's Survey: Which New DC Titles Will You Buy? http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=32751

I'm interested to see how this will turn out and if DC will get a hint on some of these horrid titles from the get-go....They should do focus groups like this if they're going to reboot an entire line...

**thunderbolt** · Jun 12, '11, 4:56 AM

Did it, can't wait to see the results. This whole thing feels like a last ditch effort to turn a profit. WB is probably tired of bleeding from that division.

**Earth 2 Chris** · Jun 12, '11, 7:23 AM

^Yeah, given the comments by some of the creators, it does seem like this is an "all or nothing" attempt to save floppy comics at DC. This is just pure speculation, but maybe WB is thinking if this doesn't work, time to axe the whole line and just produce a steady stream of OGNs and reprint TPBs for book stores.

But I think that THIS effort is going to totally backfire. Nothing I've seen here looks like it will appeal to the younger set much (unless that younger set was locked in a comic shop basement with unsold 90s Image comics for 10 years). And they have obviously alienated a LOT of the remaining fans, and fans that would have possibly come back with a more "back to basics" approach.

Chris

**ctc** · Jun 12, '11, 8:13 AM

>They should do focus groups like this if they're going to reboot an entire line

I dunno; I think that’s part of the problem. They’re trying TOO hard to appease the perceived audience, and it leads to clunky, changing books. I really think they should just do their books.... regardless of public hue and cry.... and do them appropriately. So; don’t try to squeeze Batman into an old west book just ‘cos he’s one of your top sellers. Don’t plan on pumping a character ‘cos there’s a lot of buzz NOW. It’ll be gone in a month. Just do the damned books and let the public decide what they like. You might be surprised. (Seriously, 50 VOLUMES of “The Prince of Tennis?!?!?!” WHO’S buying them?!?)

>This whole thing feels like a last ditch effort to turn a profit.

Well.... I don’t think it’s that dramatic; but they ARE desperately searching for the “next big thing.” Sadly, by doing the same old things. Literally; in most cases on this list.

>Nothing I've seen here looks like it will appeal to the younger set much

Agreed; and not just from the absence of emo vampires. If the kids are already avoiding Batman, MORE of him isn’t going to thrill them.

>I guess 40 years of loyalty means nothing anymore

Sentiment like that makes me sad. I would HOPE 40 years of loyalty got you 40 years of entertainment. Even if the new stuff sucks, it doesn’t change that.

Don C.

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