Ageism or artists being black listed in comics...

[Blue Meanie]

I heard from my friend that there are a bunch of silver age and bronze age artists that are getting together to sue Marvel for ageism practices. Amongst them is Herb Trimpe. Anyone else heard of this suit that is being brought against Marvel? I know about Herb's trials...which can be read here Herb Trimpe Fired from Marvel (The Incredible Hulk Library) But have recently read about Norm Breyfogle's being banned by DC. What's going on with the comic industry...it's bad enough when your sales are way down...but to ****off the people that draw your books...man, that's just harsh. BTW, the Herb Trimpe story is sad...but also inspiring. Give it a read.

[WannabeMego]

It's Trimpe to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that's right on time
It's Trimpe...it's Trimpe, Trimpe, Trimpe...

[samurainoir]

That is a real shame. The industry owes these guys so much and they deserve more than just some lip-service to ACTOR.

I just found out that John Byrne was back doing Next Men!

[Earth 2 Chris]

It's nothing new, but nice that someone is trying to do something about it. Former DC honcho and editor Joe Orlando was once quoted as saying "No one should work in comics that is over the age of 35". He said this when he was well into his fifties.

Some of the Bronze Age/early Dark Age guys can be found doing work for DC's licensing arm. Mike Zeck and Jon Bognadove among them. I bet they make more money off of that than toiling away at pages.

I had no idea about Norm Breyfogle. He was fantastic on Batman. Heck, DC launched the Shadow of the Bat series just for him and Alan Grant!!!

Chris

[johnmiic]

Is it age or just their styles? I know Marvel is often impressed with Liefield and his wanna-be's. They could at least employ older artists in the retro books they put out like 1985 and such. These guys were in their prime then. You want the look of specific period-just employ these guys.

[TrueDave]

I read a book on submitting screenplays and they suggested lying about your age if you are over 30.
Comics ARE hollywood now :-( .

I liked it when things were a bit more scaled down and we had more intrest in good stories and professional art.

[saildog]

I know about Herb's trials...which can be read here Herb Trimpe Fired from Marvel (The Incredible Hulk Library)

I just read through that page. Wow.

This entry was kind of moving:

July 20: Met with the Eldred superintendent, Candace Mazur. I sat on the front steps for a few minutes before the meeting, and I noticed the sign in front was painted in the school colors -- green and gold, the same as my high school. Their mascot is a yellow jacket, ours was a hornet. I was my usual overtalkative self, but she didn't hold it against me. She offered the position. Seventh-grade art, remedial math and a class with special-ed kids. It feels nice to be wanted. I feel pretty good about teaching in a public school, like maybe I can make a contribution. That's corny.

(emphasis mine)

Not corny at all, Mr. Trimpe.

[torgospizza]

If there is ageism, it seems to me to be primarily on the art--rather than the writing--side of things. They're always looking for a new flavor of the month with artists, but the big name writers are all middle-aged guys. The art thing strikes me that the editorial department sees what they consider a fresh, new approach, and they don't have the ability to realize that approach is that the guy doesn't know how to draw.

[kingdom warrior]

Amazing a wealth of Talent and knowledge and they treat these Masters like crap.....

Good thing for Marvel that they didn't practice this in the 60's cause Kirby when he co-created all those characters was already in his mid 40's

Of course they want young guys preferably with no Families and lives so they can squeeze the talent out of them and work them to death........

[samurainoir]

Trimpe's latest...


Byrne makes a statement as welll with his...


Simonson.

[saildog]

I had to go reference my copy of "Kirby..King of Comics" and on page 159 Mark Evanier relates the story of Marvel taking an original drawing of a Hulk poster, by Kirby, and having Trimpe retrace areas of it to make it look like a Trimpe original.

I'm not saying Trimpe was the bad guy, in fact Evanier says that Kirby bore absolutely no ill will toward Herb over the matter, but it does illustrate that the powers that be, and Marvel in particular, have been at this "out with the old...in with the new" for a long time.

Kirby original
http://hulkcollection.files.wordpres...tuff-6-037.jpg

Trimpe retouch
Hulk Blog!: 1970 Hulk Poster!

[Blue Meanie]

It's great seeing them do covers...but they should be doing interior art an major books. I personally am tired of the full page panels and posed "Action" in comics today. It's not a way to tell a story...and isn't that what a comic is supposed to do. Jim Shooter said this to me at the Legends convention in White Plains a few years back...I asked him what's wrong with the industry today and he said that the main thing is writers and artists don't know how to tell a story anymore....if it's done right it should flow like a mini movie and the panels should be scenes in the movie. Which I agree with. Look at the movie The Crow...that was almost shot right from the book. That's why it worked.

These older artist KNOW how to tell a story...it's a shame the new artists can't. I say if you can still draw you shouldn't have age holding you back or get blackballed for being to old. Just a sad state of affairs for the comic industry.

[WannabeMego]

Most the the Older Artists (like Trimpe, Hasen, Ayers, etc.) may not see the day when Self-Publishing takes a widespread hold on the Net (i.e. Amazon)...but...Maybe Byrne, Buckler, Adams, Grell, & others will.

As long as the stories are good and the Art framing/paneling supports the flow of the story...some of these guys may see a comeback of sorts without the need for the big 2 (DC & Marvel/Warner & Disney)...but it's a few years away.

[MIB41]

The life of an artist. It never changes. And another example of why I decided to go a different way with my studies back in the mid 80's. Actually Herb's experience was better than most. At least his position was eliminated due to the company falling on hard times and not because they just didn't want him anymore. The comic book world is very fickle. They are constantly pushing new styles. SO even if your a good artist, you have to constantly rework your style to remain relevant. Look at John Romita Jr? Look at his work in the mid-70's and where it has gone since. When it comes to making a living, it's a thankless job.

[Blue Meanie]

Look at John Romita Jr? Look at his work in the mid-70's and where it has gone since.

He's become a hack. His art has no "Definition" at all. Does he choose not to have any inking on his art? Cause that's exactly what his stuff looks like for the last decade.

I think the only thing that is saving any of the older artists these days is the convention circuit. That's why encourage anyone out there to go and talk to some of these guys/gals at these shows. Show some respect to the guys that built the industry...cause the Big 2 aren't giving them the respect and work they deserve.