Teen Titans....How Would You Fix It?

[david_b]

Hmmmm....

Two words: "Mad Mod." Or to be more general; add some SURPRISES! I didn't read the book back in the day, but in the late 90's I got caught up, and I MUCH preferred the 60's version. The 80's Titans has nothing really special about it. It's a standard superhero soap with all the standard stories. 'Course; some of them were new when they did them, but over the years they became the norm, so trying to relive THOSE glory days is gonna come across as old hat. Get away from the "No! They're PERTINENT 'cos they deal with issues and stuff!" One of the running themes of the 60's book was how active the Titans were in the community. Bring back some of that. Considering hte community in the DC universe hyjinks will INEVITABLY ensue.

Don C.

That's exactly the point. Forget the 'sheer power' of the group with Cyborg and Raven and folk. The best Titans were in the 60s, and it's MORE than just characters..: It's STYLE and more an attitude about getting the bad guys (or aliens from space, etc..) and I guess being very hip, being in High School/college, whatever the case is.

The 80s Team brought a lot of characterizations, depth, intrigue and fun to the mix, but they got stale after Marv and Mr. Perez left. The animated show had a cool, unique style to it and was fun to watch.

It's down to what folks want: The old characters have now all grown and left. Forget about them. If you want the style/charisma in a contemporary setting, then DC should just spring out some new characters, OR make retro comics about the originals back in the 60s.

david_b

[BlackKnight]

The best Titans were in the 60s, and it's MORE than just characters..:

I disagree 250% Percent with that Statement.

The Best Titans were Wolfman and Perez in the 80's Hands Down. Introductions of Starfire, Raven, Cyborg ...., Disco Nightwing..., Deathstroke and His Brat Pack,.. and other More Defined Villians. The Titan's also started becoming their own people..., instead of "Mirror" Images of thier Mentors. And Tera Being Introduced..., then Turn Rogue,.. then being Killed,.. United the Main Characters of the Titans like Never Before.

[ctc]

>The Best Titans were Wolfman and Perez in the 80's Hands Down.

I think it depends on how you define "best." They had the best writing, art (maybe,) constructed stories.... but they were also really, REALLY typical. Hell, they WERE the X-Men! (And so was durned near every other super-team.) The 60's ones weren't as technically proficient, but they had more distinction. Not always in a GOOD way, considering the stories were often based around what middle aged men tought the teens of the day were like.... but they were unique. I'd like to see some of that uniqueness done with the 80's proficiency.

>The animated show had a cool, unique style to it and was fun to watch.

It was closer to the 60's one (two words: Mad Mod) but they tooned it up too much. And they went kinda typical with the stories.... more TOON typical than superhero; but still. “Oh no! We’ve been sucked into the tv!”

>DC should just spring out some new characters, OR make retro comics about the originals back in the 60s.

Hmmmm.... I dunno. They gotta have some characters that are appropriate. New characters always worry me. I think the trick would be to feature “smaller” stories. More street level, and more interaction with the citizenry. (Beyond the old “Oh no! There’s a kid in the collapsing building!”) Maybe lighten up on the drama; otherwise it’s too much like every other superteam out there.

Don C.

[BlackKnight]

I think it depends on how you define "best." They had the best writing, art (maybe,) constructed stories....

They Had All That, And More. Wolfman was Also Actually Able to Give the characters Depth, that you Actually Cared About. Before then imo ..., They were Nothing More Than Young Gimic Mirror Images with Absolutely Hardly Any Personality Present imo.

but they were also really, REALLY typical.

Think So Huh ? ... Yeah, I guess I went to school with that Kid Who Could Change into an Animal, yeah ... Any Animal He wanted to as well....., Ohhh and What About that Half Cyborg Kid you Had Gym Class with..., Ohhh, man ohhh Man,.. Don't even Get Me Started on that Orange Chick from Space with them Big Arse Boobs that Never really Wanted to Wear Clothes ...., Now the Weird Chick from Detention was a bit Typical for a Goth Vamp Type ..., But I was Kinda Weirded out, when I found out Her Dad was an Actual Demon from Another Demention, And He Wanted to Take over Earth and Enslave the Human Race ..., But then Again,.. Since Everything was SO Typical,.. I decided to spend my Money ,.. Just to Waste it Anyway's ..., Because I didn't actually Need it anymore.


You wanna Talk "Typical" Super Heros... Look No Further than the Titans Before them ..

Robin = Batman
Wondergirl = Wonder Woman
Kid Flash = Flash
Speedy = Green Arrow
AquaLad = Aquaman .....

Man,.. Talk about a Frick'en Snooze Fest ..., I couldn't Make that Crap Up even If I tried ... , Seriously ? ... This was the Best people could come up with back in the Day ? Thank God for the "Dark Ages" lol.

BTW... All in 1 form or another have Replaced thier Mentor's as Well ..., Weird Stuff Huh ? I personally woulda Never Scene that Comming,.. I mean, How could you.


But ..., As 1 of the Very Few Member's of this Board,.. who is Probably 10to15 Yr's younger than Most here,.. Who was a Kid Himself in the late 80's reading this Book ..., I have a pretty strong weighing Opinion,.. that They were the Greatest.

Hell, they WERE the X-Men!

Now that is Obviously the Greatest Opinion Thus Far in this Discussion.

[ctc]

>Wolfman was Also Actually Able to Give the characters Depth, that you Actually Cared About.

Well.... maybe it’s ‘cos I was older when they came out; but I didn’t feel they had depth. I’d seen them before; many, many times. Superheroes have been standardized for a while though, and the Titans played out pretty much the same as any other team. I call ‘em the X-Men ‘cos that’s the first book I really remember seeing the formula in; but it was an old formula before them. (As I found out reading the Marvel Essentials books.)

>Now that is Obviously the Greatest Opinion Thus Far in this Discussion.

WOOOOO!!!! I rule!

Don C.

[BlackKnight]

X-men was really a book, and in most cases still is , About Racisim ,.. and pretty much X-ploits (pun intended) the Idea Of Racisim threw Hidden and Nonhidden Messages. It's really no different than everyday life, with thought's on the Subject, Just Add Super Hero Powers.


Titan's, ( More so Wolfman's) was a Comming of Age book with Kid's , Side Kicks and Strangers . Who for the Most Part , yes are Super Hero's ,.. but they are More so Trying to out What Direction they Wished to Choose, and Broke out of the SterioTyped Side Kick world that was created before them.


It's really not the Same at all..., when you look past the Idea of Super Power's on a Team.

[thunderbolt]

ehhh, the 80's Titans were ok, as soon as Perez left the wheels fell off the bus and the book floundered ever since. Wolfman must have depended a lot more on Perez for plotting and sales.

[david_b]

X-men was really a book, and in most cases still is , About Racisim ,.. and pretty much X-ploits (pun intended) the Idea Of Racisim threw Hidden and Nonhidden Messages. It's really no different than everyday life, with thought's on the Subject, Just Add Super Hero Powers.


Titan's, ( More so Wolfman's) was a Comming of Age book with Kid's , Side Kicks and Strangers . Who for the Most Part , yes are Super Hero's ,.. but they are More so Trying to out What Direction they Wished to Choose, and Broke out of the SterioTyped Side Kick world that was created before them.


It's really not the Same at all..., when you look past the Idea of Super Power's on a Team.

I do agree with some of your points.. I wasn't dissing the 80s stuff in my earlier post; quite the contrary, there was nice characterizations especially with Dick, Wally, heck, everyone. You really enjoyed the characters, you knew them as people, and thanks to Wolfman's writing, they talked like normal individuals, folks you'd actually like to spend a day with. (NOTE: I never read XMen, so I can't comment to that..).

BUT, the layer of 60s story-telling that CTC and I are agreed on was not so much the characters, but the flavor of stories where the team's cardboard personalities were, yes, basically interchangeable, but it was a distinctive 'spirit' to the stories, much like Kirby's FF, much like Steve Englehart's Captain America; yes, much like Wolfman's New Titans.

By the way, I hated the whole 'Mr. Jupiter' story arc in the old book; it came at a time when the innocence of it all was lost, and suddenly teenagers had to 'take a stand', but it also took away the entire concept of teenagers being able to make their own decisions, and so on.. The best stuff was before that.

Yes, the 60s style was silly, but light-weight and coolly memorable, hence why they were brought back TWICE, in the 70s and 80s.

david_b

[The Toyroom]

80s Wolfman/Perez run was the best.....

[ctc]

>they are More so Trying to out What Direction they Wished to Choose, and Broke out of the SterioTyped Side Kick world that was created before them.

I think you’ve hit on one of the problems I’ve always had with perpetual books; that there’s only so many stories to go around, and they tend to get recycled. You’re right that THIS is the core idea behind the titans, (even the 60's ones) but as the book progresses they sorta lose focus. Mostly ‘cos you can’t resolve any of these problems without ending the book, and the book has to continue for as long as it’s profitable. So eventually they veer into X-Men-esque melodrama (and ninjas) and the X-Men starts doing stories about characters and their worries over their place on the team, and it all starts squooshing together.

When they do new books, they have a habit of bringing back the old characters; since in most people’s minds it’s the roster that makes the team.... which makes things worse. So you get Nightwing (who’s been his own man for a LONG time) suddenly feeling the weight of Bats’ shadow.... or Donna Troy who, well.... it’s tough to tell since they’ve already resolved her story a few times now. So you gotta change the team, or change the theme; and I’d bet the marketing department would have problems with either.

>was not so much the characters, but the flavor of stories

Definitely. They fought a lot of low-key bad guys too; something that got nixed from the 80's book. Problem with that is, once you go for the hugemongenor terror of the month you get caught up on the superhero villain’s arms race and edge another step closer to looking like every other book.

Don C.

[Mego Milk]

Give it to Art. At least we know it'll be good.

AW YEAH TITANS!
I'll take it!

[Earth 2 Chris]

I think Art gets Titans far better than anyone who has handled it in the past 20 years (outside of Johns maybe). That includes Marv's later issues (although he was being told what to do at that point and admits he should have left long before).

Chris

[The Toyroom]

AW YEAH TITANS!
I'll take it!

THAT'D be a Titans book I could get behind!

[boynightwing]

Titans and Teen Titans seem to suffer from whats going on in the rest of DC continuity. I would like to see it just exist on its own.