Spider Woman Motion Comic

[samurainoir]

Here is a Link where Comic Inker Klaus Janson talks about the use of photo reference..... comicfoundry.com June

It is one thing to use your own photography and use it to draw from, meaning not tracing. It's another like Klaus says in the interview to invite your friends over
Take pics and then trace over and ink them.....Photography when used in comics is dull and stiff. The artist needs to have some drawing ability. Many artist in the past have used photography.....but were accomplished artist who used it to draw from not to trace over.

That's not exactly what Janson is saying...

I don’t think it’s bad. When I think of photo-realism, I think a lot of guys 30, 40, 50 years ago: Al Williamson photographed everything that he drew, Gene Colan was obviously very heavily influence by photography and did a lot of his own photos, and Neal Adams and people like that certainly existed even 30, 40, 50 years ago and I don’t see that as a problem.

The problem I see is the greater reliance on the camera for mechanics rather than relying on imagination. A great reliance on photo-realism as opposed to the artists’ point of view. When I buy a book, I almost never buy the book for the character; I buy it for the people who are doing the project. And I also reject the book based on the people that are drawing or writing it. I want to see somebody’s opinion. I want to see their point of view. A lot of people might point to someone like Steve Ditko or Carmine Infantino as being very quirky and having a very unusual non-realistic style. But after looking at some of the books these days I find it refreshing. I see it as a breath of fresh air and I can appreciate their quirkiness. The problem with photo-realism is that if everybody does it, it’s all going to look the same eventually, and I don’t know if that’s going to be possible but I think that’s a legitimate concern.

I don't think this necessarily applies to Maleev. The guy has demonstrated his versatility and adjusts the way he works depending on the project, but in general he's got a pretty distinct individual style that is hard to mistake for anyone else's.

It's interesting to note that "tracing" is considered a negative while at the same time citing Klaus Janson.

You do realize that Klaus Janson's early career as a penciller is based around "tracing" layouts by guys like Larry Hama and Frank Miller right?

On his own as a penciller,..

[VintageMike]

Wow, I didn't even finish it, that blew. I more interested in reading issues from the original series I picked up for $2 a pop at a comic show last month.

[kingdom warrior]

That's not exactly what Janson is saying...



I don't think this necessarily applies to Maleev. The guy has demonstrated his versatility and adjusts the way he works depending on the project, but in general he's got a pretty distinct individual style that is hard to mistake for anyone else's.

It's interesting to note that "tracing" is considered a negative while at the same time citing Klaus Janson.

You do realize that Klaus Janson's early career as a penciller is based around "tracing" layouts by guys like Larry Hama and Frank Miller right?

On his own as a penciller,..

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/thumb/3/3a/LODK_7.jpg/300px-LODK_7.jpg

http://www.comicartfans.com/Images/C...sher5cover.jpg

This is what I was referring to........

Q:Do you think that’s a sweeping thing across the board? I can see that for superhero books, but what about more realistic, grounded books?

KJ:You have a valid point, and I understand what you’re saying, a book like “Gotham Central” or “The Pulse,” which are non-superhero books. The point that I would want to make is there’s nothing wrong with using photos as a reference, but you have to be able to generate and create some kind of excitement on the page, and I don’t care how you do it.

I think there are some artists who are relying too much on that and not bringing any of their own particular vision to it. It really doesn’t take that much talent to have your friends pose for pictures and then trace them off. That lacks a point of view, the artists’ point of view, and that’s what I want to see. What is the artist thinking about? I can’t get beyond the photo-realism. I want to see how the artist, the storyteller tells the story, whatever it is, in his own vibrant, opinionated point of view. And I think the photo-realism stuff really stands in the way of that. But like you said, not always. Believe me, I use photos, absolutely, for all different jobs, whether it’s backgrounds or faces, but there is a way of incorporating it in your work and not letting it get in the way of the artists point of view.

As for him Tracing layouts.....He didn't. You work from a layout and enhance what's there. Depending on the artist who layed it out. Some do full layouts while others barely do stick drawings.

I know I've been an Illustrator/storyboard artist for twenty years and have worked from many Art Directors stick drawing layouts.......The mentality was always you know how to draw finish it.

Just to add Klaus is one of the great Inkers in the comic Biz.

[samurainoir]

I agree, Janson is one of the great inkers.

Although we're talking pencillers/artists and personal vision aren't we?

The issue of the Frank Miller original run Daredevil showing Miller's layouts and Janson's art clearly shows Janson is executing Miller's personal vision was my point.

As for storyboard art... is the final product that ends up on screen actually the storyboard artist's personal vision? Unless it's animation we're talking about, I'm not so sure the collaborative nature of film/tv allows for the personal vision regarding the final product (film/tv show/commercial) that Janson is talking about with comic book art that the end user experiences.

Although we're talking Alex Maleev here, and there is certainly enough examples out there that show off his personal vision in many different comics and show that he's not just a "tracer".


My own opinion on photography is that it is simply another tool in the artist's kit and it all comes down to the final results. Dramatic photos can result in dramatic drawings after all. Although I guess we are kind of narrow focusing on Superhero comics, and granted the technology has opened things up for quite a bit of failed experimentation, you also have some wildly innovative stuff slipping through the cracks elsewhere. Whether you dig Dave McKean's stuff or not, the use of photoshop and photos in his work has pushed the envelope and led to so many folks trying to emulate his stuff in mainstream commercial art. There is definitely personal vision at work in McKean's hands and the number of folks copying it speaks of it's commercial success coming from a very avante garde place.

[samurainoir]

Although perhaps a better example to discuss is Tony Harris, who has in past discussed his struggle between trying to find that balance between being so slavish to photo reference and the liberation of drawing without it.

Fans really dug his Starman work...

Which slowly started getting more and more "realistic"


Before he abruptly went more "cartoony" and stylized in the little seen Obergeist...

And it was here he discussed how libertating it was for him to do away with the slavishness of how he uses photoreferences.

Although he now appears to have come back around relying on it more heavily than ever once again as Ex Machina progresses.


I seem to recall some "tracing" accusations recently on a War Heroes cover (or ad?) recently.

[kingdom warrior]

My own opinion on photography is that it is simply another tool in the artist's kit and it all comes down to the final results. Dramatic photos can result in dramatic drawings after all. Although I guess we are kind of narrow focusing on Superhero comics, and granted the technology has opened things up for quite a bit of failed experimentation, you also have some wildly innovative stuff slipping through the cracks elsewhere. Whether you dig Dave McKean's stuff or not, the use of photoshop and photos in his work has pushed the envelope and led to so many folks trying to emulate his stuff in mainstream commercial art. There is definitely personal vision at work in McKean's hands and the number of folks copying it speaks of it's commercial success coming from a very avante garde place.

I hear where you're coming from. When I was in college and in Art school. I had to take photography. I remember a Professor telling us if you don't know what something looks like go take a picture of it and draw from it.....but we could only draw from it not trace.

I was taught to draw so you train your mind to work from memory. Also we had to learn from the teachings of Burne Hogarth to draw with no model and learn anatomy. The more you sketch and draw the Less photography is needed.

I remember reading an Interview where Frank Frazetta absolutely frowned on photography and swipes. He felt it was dishonest and in the end hinders the artist. He felt that you should be able to pull things out of your imagination not rely on Photos. He said Photos used in art have no life to them. He said I'd rather see an artist trying to draw something even though he may not have gotten it right it's honest. Whereas someone who used a photo may get it right but the art has no life.

He made a great point with his animals and beasts in his paintings saying no one draws them like me because I just make it up. My anatomy is not accurate on my animals but it's powerful and convincing.


I don't think the use the photo realistic style has pushed the envelope. I personally think it's hindered comics.......there is a new generation of graphic designers that found a way in the biz and want to show realistic superheros..........and then people wonder why comics have taken a nose dive with kids.



Sorry I took your thread another direction that was not my intent......