Silver age Brave and Bold

[Riffster]

ok dumb questiosn, were those stories supposed to be on Earth 2?

[CaptainTrenchcoat]

Some were others were not. It depended on the story. Did you have a specific issue in mind?

[Riffster]

not really, just wondering, so like the batman/Sgt Rock was Earth 2. i guess i'll just go through and read em and decide where they are as I read

[Earth 2 Chris]

They were on Earth-B. It's an Earth that fans made up (with apparently some input from DC editorial asides, like the old "Answer Man" column) where stories that don't fit into continuity go. Instances of Earth B stories have Batman teaming with Earth 2 characters Spectre and Wildcat with no explanation, Bruce Wayne having a mentally handicapped brother (!) and the like.

It was named for Brave and the Bold, Bob Haney, and Murray Boltionff (B&B editor). In later years, after Boltinoff retired, new editors reined in the writers and made them say if stories took place on Earth-2.

Chris

[Riffster]

cool Chris, thanks

[The Toyroom]

In regards to Earth-B, I've always found this of use:

Earth-B Chronology

From "Comments on a Finite Number of Earths" by Lou Mougin and Mark Waid:

"This Earth can be the most elusive of all for which to pin
down any identifying traits. Indeed, it has never been shown
by DC as a distinct Earth; it is only posited to exist because
of inconsistencies created in comics edited by Murray Boltinoff,
or written by Bob Haney or E. Nelson Bridwell. Mostly, these
inconsistencies are found in issues of Brave and the Bold and
World's Finest Comics."

"In fact, it is difficult to say which stories in those series
did occur on Earth-B, since most issues can be recognised as
canonical tales of Earth-One. Here are some possible identifying
traits:"

"The Batman of Earth-B began his career in World War II, at least
shortly before D Day He teamed with Sgt. Rock in a crucial point of
the conflict. Bruce Wayne had a brother named Thomas, whose existence
was hidden from him until the 1970s, Batman continued his career
without letup all the way through the Seventies, without marrying or
seeming to age. His Catwoman, unlike that of Earth One, has no
compunction against murdering and has done so at least once. Green
Arrow I, after losing his fortune to John Deleon (as on Earth One),
apparently regained it to a large degree."

"These stories are but the tip of the iceberg, and any tale which conflicts
irreconcilably with canonical "fact" in other stories can be assigned to
Earth-B. It is probable that Earth-B did not survive the Crisis; it may be
the Earth on which DC Challenge takes place."


1930s-1940s
============================
Thomas Wayne, Jr. is born to Gotham socialites Thomas and
Martha Wayne. Their second son, Bruce, is born a few years
later. [World's Finest #223]

Lois Lane travels from the future to Krypton before its
destruction and tries to romance Jor-El before he can marry
Lara. Jor-El eventually projects her into the Phantom Zone,
where she remains until rescued by Superman. [Lois Lane #59]

After the deaths of Thomas and Martha Wayne, their bodies are
cremated and their ashes are placed in an urn. [Brave and the
Bold #99] NOTE: In Earth-1 continuity, they were buried in a
cemetary.

Superboy discovers Jor-El & Lara didn't die when Krypton blew
up, but were placed in suspended animation in a space
capsule. Since reviving them would mean having them both die
of radiation poisoning, Superboy leaves them alone. [Superboy #158]

Bart Hawk's brother Jack is lost during a bombing mission in
World War II. [Blackhawk #242]

Liu Huang, the son of the governor of a Chinese province,
secretly fights the occupying Japanese army as the White
Dragon. He later joins the Blackhawks as Chop-Chop. [Blackhawk #203]

1952
============================
Superboy becomes Superman. After relocating to Metropolis he
is briefly reunited with his childhood sweetheart Lana Lang.
[Superman #78] NOTE: This was replaced in Earth-1 continuity
by Showcase #9.

1955
============================
Dick Grayson becomes Batman's partner Robin. [Batman #32]
NOTE: This account differs significantly from Detective
Comics #38.

Roy Harper becomes Green Arrow's partner Speedy. [Adventure
Comics #209] NOTE: This was replaced in Earth-1 continuity by
Adventure Comics #262.

1956
============================
Barry Allen gains superspeed thanks to an alien imp named
Mopee directing a lightning bolt to his lab. [Flash #167]

1959
============================
Jimmy Olsen meets Lois Lane's sister Lucy. [Superman's Pal,
Jimmy Olsen #36]

Hal Jordan becomes Green Lantern of Earth. On one of his
earliest missions, he brings the gorilla-like natives of the
planet Calor to Gorilla City on Earth, and becomes the first
human to fight Grodd. [DC Super-Stars #14] NOTE: This account
contradicts every other Gorilla City origin story told before
or since.

1961
============================
Superman brings Samson and Hercules from the past. Lois Lane
and Lana Lang agree to marry the two heroes, but eventually
Samson and Hercules beg Superman to return them home. [Action
Comics #279] NOTE: Unlike most Imaginary Stories, this one
does not feature a big change in the status quo, so is relegated
to Earth-B rather than its own Earth.

1965
============================
Lois Lane borrows a time machine from Professor Potter and
goes back to Krypton before its destruction. [Lois Lane #59]

Thanagar establishes an intergalactic Hawk Corps. Carter and
Sheira Hall are revealed as aliens in their civilian
identities. [Hawkman #22-27] NOTE: These issues were revealed
to be not part of Earth-1 continuity in Shadow War of
Hawkman.

1968
============================
The Blackhawks battle Black Mask, who is revealed to be Bart
Hawk's brother. [Blackhawk #242-243]

Jimmy Olsen briefly teams up with Lex Luthor. [Superman's
Pal, Jimmy Olsen #109]

1970
============================
Batman and Adam Strange team up. [Brave and the Bold #90]
NOTE: At the time of this story on Earth-1, Adam Strange was
unable to return to Earth from Rann or he would die.

1971
============================
Batman and the Flash meet the ghosts of Thomas and Martha
Wayne. [Brave and the Bold #99]

1974
============================
Batman learns of the existence of his older brother, Thomas
Wayne, Jr. [World's Finest #223, 227]

1976
============================
Batman and Robin battle the Joker [Batman Power Records Comic
#PR-27] and encounter Man-Bat [Batman Power Records Comic #PR-30]

The Blackhawks become mercenaries, gaining new uniforms and
cover identities in the process. [Blackhawk #244-250]

Batman and Wonder Woman battle Catwoman. [Brave and the Bold #131]

1978
============================
Firestorm battles the Typhoon. [Cancelled Comic Cavalcade #1].
NOTE: The Typhoon here has a different identity and origin from
the Earth-1 version.

Mari McCabe becomes the Vixen. [Cancelled Comic Cavalcade #2].
NOTE: This account differs significantly from Action #521.

Superman learns that his Kryptonian glasses have intensified
his super-hypnotism powers to make people think that Kent
doesn't resemble Superman [Superman #330]

1984
============================
Superman battles Brainiac. [Superman Special #2] NOTE: Unlike
most Imaginary Stories, this one does not feature a big change
in the status quo, so is relegated to Earth-B rather than its
own Earth.

1986
============================
The events of DC Challenge! [DC Challenge #1-12]

1994
============================
Batman and Catwoman battle the Joker and Rupert Thorne.
[Batman: The Last Angel]

[kryptosmaster]

I always wondered what happened with the Batman's brother storyline. Never got around to realizing it was one of those loophole Earth-B stories. Figured maybe I just never got the follow-up issue(s).
Rich

[Earth 2 Chris]

Thanks for that Anthony! Where did that originate?

BackIssue had an article on the Brave and the Bold that listed the odd circumstances and elements that Batman encountered in that title. It was a hoot. Batman had like 20 adopted kids/ and or God-children at one time or another!

Chris

[The Toyroom]

Thanks for that Anthony! Where did that originate?

I'm not sure....I found it awhile back and just copied and pasted it to Word on my hard-drive. I figured it may come in handy for an infinite earths project I did before that I'd like to revisit at some point. This stuff fascinates and frustrates me all at the same time. It used to be so much easier to keep track of BEFORE DC mucked things up with "52"....Bleech.

[johnnystorm]

Let's not forget the Super-Sons...or the classic B&B where Haney & Aparo were writing & drawing the story AS IT HAPPENED to Batman and Sgt. Rock, while a terrorist group was trying to kill them (Aparo & Haney) in order to defeat the heroes!

And how many times was Bruce Wayne appointed acting senator/ammbassador/governor/etc.?


Wild stuff...yet never as annoying as current stuff like Superboy punching the reality wall. Why was that Silver Age stuff so acceptable to us?

[The Toyroom]

Considering the list appears to have been complied by Lou Mougin and Mark Waid, I'd say it may have originated for those DC indexes that Eclipse (aka Independent) put out years ago.

[Earth 2 Chris]

Wild stuff...yet never as annoying as current stuff like Superboy punching the reality wall. Why was that Silver Age stuff so acceptable to us?

Because the stupid stuff never stuck. If it was lame, no writer ever referenced it again (Mopee, Thomas Wayne Jr, etc). Nowadays if a hot writer decides Batman had his parents killed so he could become Batman, it's canon. Unless until a new regime takes over at DC.

Let's not forget the Super-Sons.

Oh and the Super Sons were explained away as computer simulations in the late 70s/early 80s in World's Finest.

Chris

[The Toyroom]

Wild stuff...yet never as annoying as current stuff like Superboy punching the reality wall. Why was that Silver Age stuff so acceptable to us?

Because, although continuity existed back in the Silver Age, it wasn't the kind that was forced down your throat with a score-card. If you wanted to follow it, ok....if you wanted to ignore it, ok....just tell a GOOD story regardless of what earth it's set on.

For all the good Crisis on Infinite Earths did and INTENDED to do, it unleashed a new type of continuity that had to be strictly adhered to because now there was only one earth. You couldn't catergorize a story as Earth-B or Earth-2 because those earths no longer existed.

So Black Canary had to replace Wonder Woman as a founding member of the JLA, Hawkman's history was f'ed up beyond repair, Superman became the SOLE survivor of Krypton and screwed up the Legion of Super-Heroes history in the process.....etc, etc.

Until writers began to want to use the stuff that had been forbidden to them....like Supergirl, Krypto, Kandor for example...How many versions did we get until DC finally settled on what we have now?

Infinite Crisis and 52 had the potential to put things back to Pre-COIE...the multiple earths we all know and love and wished could come back for the sake of good stories. Instead we got a bunch of Elseworld rip-off earths that are LIKE the earths we grew up with but AREN'T... See: The New Earth-2.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^ Completely agree. Infinite Crisis should have just undid Crisis. Post-Crisis Earth could still exist as it's own Earth, and we could have back Earth 1 and Earth 2, etc. More playgrounds for the writers and artist to run wild in. And as you said no changes would be hard or set in stone. And really, none are, because even if the changes are accepted, the next editor/writer can throw them out at a whim for no reason (see Starlin's Hawkman fiasco). It's the illusion of strict continuity, without any benefits. That's what we've had every since Crisis ended and every title didn't restart with #1.

Chris

[ctc]

>Because the stupid stuff never stuck. If it was lame, no writer ever referenced it again

But don't forget that the 80's saw the dawn of the long term, older fan; who insisted (often to amazingly retentive levels) on a consistent history. Crisis wasn't just the cause; it was a symptom.

Don C.