Wait... They killed the new Hawkgirl?

[samurainoir]

Where and When?

This is such a shame. After James Robinson, David Goyer and Geoff Johns went to such great lengths to clean up all the mess with the Hawks?

She was such a great character under their care. Too bad she got cluttered so fast under other people's handling of the character.

Can I guess that this is clearing the decks for the return of Shayera? Hopefully in the pages of JLA where Dwayne McDuffie can do her right? Space Cop from Thanager, like in Justice League Unlimited?

[The Toyroom]

If you believe what you read in "Final Crisis", Hawkman and Hawgirl both died. However, Hawkman has still been poping up in JSA, which takes place after Final Crisis. Hopefully we'll find out if they're dead or alive in Blackest Night.

[thunderbolt]

They get reincarnated all the time. Jim Starlin crapped all over the good job Robinson and co. did fixing the Hawk's mess of continuity.

[The Toyroom]

Don't blame Starlin 100%....he was allowed to crap all over what Robinson and Johns did because DiDio felt that Hawkman had become too "confusing".....

[samurainoir]

If you believe what you read in "Final Crisis", Hawkman and Hawgirl both died. However, Hawkman has still been poping up in JSA, which takes place after Final Crisis. Hopefully we'll find out if they're dead or alive in Blackest Night.

Okay, that is extra confusing since I've been reading JSA with Hawkman in it. At least JLA acknowledged Hawkgirl died.

Do you guys feel that things tend to go downhill once Geoff Johns leaves a title? Hawkman was successfully relaunched and was a great title even surviving Robinson's departure thanks to Johns (ditto JSA). I tried staying with Titans, but it just wasn't the same. Wally's version of Flash too. Having a hard time on Action, but it isn't really Superman either.

I can only imagine what happens to Green Lantern once he needs to leave that title.

[The Toyroom]

Do you guys feel that things tend to go downhill once Geoff Johns leaves a title? Hawkman was successfully relaunched and was a great title even surviving Robinson's departure thanks to Johns (ditto JSA). I tried staying with Titans, but it just wasn't the same. Wally's version of Flash too. Having a hard time on Action, but it isn't really Superman either.

I can only imagine what happens to Green Lantern once he needs to leave that title.

You hit the nail on the head....Hawkman was ok after Johns left under Palmiotti and Gray but totally tanked when it became Hawkgirl by Chaykin and Simonson. I have a feeling the poor sales on "Hawkgir" that caused the title to be cancelled translated into "Hawkman's continuity is too confusing...here you go Starlin, see if you can fix it" in the mind of DiDio.

I've been a faithful follower of Johns on JSA since the get-go (actually even before when Robinson and Goyer were on it)...I have a feeling it too will tank now that Willingham and Sturges are taking over.

Johns (and Franks) on Action was GOLD! The new stuff since they left to concentrate on Superman:Secret Origin though is sub-par and I really don't care what's going on. A book that I may be dropping soon.

Unfortunately Johns can't write everything....but what needs to be done is to clone the guy so at least ALL of the DC titles can be good ones instead of just the ones he is currently writing.

[The Toyroom]

Oh yeah...and Titans sucked big time after he left....musical chairs with the membership every other issue didn't help either....I hung on much too long after he departed but finally got the sense to drop the book.

[BlackKnight]

I can only imagine what happens to Green Lantern once he needs to leave that title.

I do not look forward to that Day.

[samurainoir]

So what did Starlin do to the Hawks? I'm not sure why they decided to beat the Rann Thanager war into the ground like that.

I'm crossing my fingers with Willingham and Sturges. I'm a huge Fables fan, and found enjoyment in most of Willingham's pre-DCU work including Elementals, Pantheon, Coventry, The Dreaming, Proposition Player, and even Ironwood. Hopefully they can bring some of the magic from Fables over to the JSA.

Willingham's run on Robin was quite good, and even the initial Shadowpact mini I liked. It was things like the Shadowpact ongoing and Salvation Run that seemed to run out of steam really quick, particularly when the baton was passed to Sturges mid stream.


I'm feeling like there is a group of Marvel writers that are really good at passing the baton back and forth among themselves. They get inspired by each other and take each other's ideas and build on it, and One-Up each other. Brian Bendis in particular.

Just look at how Norman Osborn has become a "player" and comes back to the "A" list so strongly. You have Mark Millar orchestrating his fall in Marvel Knights Spiderman, Bendis picks up on in The Pulse, Warren Ellis grabs him and gives him the make-over for Thunderbolts, back to Bendis for Secret Invasion and subsequently Dark Avengers.

DCU writers seem to be constantly running into one another and tripping over each other. Dwayne McDuffie by all accounts should have access to the Big 7 and the entire DCU in the same way as his TV version of Justice League Unlimited. That is what fans are looking for. Instead, he's got a constantly changing line-up of "C" and "D" listers and has to course correct every few issues to accommodate the events.

[The Toyroom]

So what did Starlin do to the Hawks? I'm not sure why they decided to beat the Rann Thanager war into the ground like that.

Long story short....check out the recent Hawkman and Adam Strange Specials from Starlin....both guys were told that everything they thought they knew was not as it seemed by a big alien dude (typical Starlin fare). In the case of Hawkman he was specifically told he was NOT the reincarnation of Prince Khufu aka Carter Hall and all of that past life stuff was BS. Basically peeing all over the groundwork Robinson and Johns had laid down for the character's reboot. Supposedly Hawkman and Adam Strange are 2 out of 7 individuals who are part of some cosmic scheme according to this alien clown.

[BlackKnight]

WOW... After thinking about it,.. I am so damn Glad it was explained to well that the Hawks were "quote un quote" Killed in FC . All I ever saw was them in Flying Panels,.. Probably like 4 or 5 of them.

I guess their "Deaths" were one of the Many ,.. in where you had to use your imagination to finish the Story.

[The Toyroom]

WOW... After thinking about it,.. I am so damn Glad it was explained to well that the Hawks were "quote un quote" Killed in FC . All I ever saw was them in Flying Panels,.. Probably like 4 or 5 of them.

I guess their "Deaths" were one of the Many ,.. in where you had to use your imagination to finish the Story.

Yeah, it's along the same lines of "Aquaman's" appearance in Final Crisis...it's since been revealed elsewhere that it wasn't the REAL Aquaman but just a counterpart from another Earth who came to help out in the battle with Darkseid because his wife wanted him to mow the lawn that day and he really didn't want to so he skipped out for a couple of hours. What sucks is the lawn grows like weeds in Atlantis so now he's got to cut it anyway...

....at least that's the story I made up in my head because the narrative in FC didn't explain all of that....

[EMCE Hammer]

You've hit on something. I am going to try to get my DC books from now on with only artwork. Anytime something looks stupid, I'll imagine it's a dream from drinking stale beer.

[madmarva]

The Hawks didn't die

In last month's edition of Justice League it was explained that the Hawks didn't die in Final Crisis. They were just injured. Hawkgirl worse than Hawkman,which explains his appearances in other books.

I too was saddened that that DC is doing away with Hawkman's Egyptian origins. The reincarnation angle's far more interesting than cop from another planet coming to a less advanced civilization to study its police methods

[aquatroy]

Editorial has really dropped the ball with the Hawks. Johns gave them a great concept and foundation to build stories on and editorial goes limp the first time a "name" writer comes along with another concept.
It's to bad. I was looking forward to new "past lives" stories and excited about the possibility of new Silent Knight tales.