Blackest Night spoiler (2nd wave of figures)

[aquatroy]

Great! My childhood heroes aren't only dead, now they're rotting guys with a fetish for black spandex.

I like Johns normally, but this doesn't entice me in the least.

Poor Earth 2 Supes...the original Super Hero deserves better.

Chris

I'm sure Johns will do a good job with the story. I've liked much of what has come so far. However, I agree that E2 Supes deserves better then this.

[BlackKnight]

They ALL have two first names: Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, Hal Jordan, Barry Allen, Diana Prince(ok, so the second one is a pet's name). Aquaman was Arthur Curry- one first name, one Indian entree.

Yeah,.. I know, Point Taken.
It just sounds like another Notch to rag on the New Aquaman with .

[ctc]

Say;

The whole "Blackest Night" idea kinda reminds me of the storyline from the 70's Legion where Darkseid made evil clones of a bunch of superheroes....

Don C.

[madmarva]

No, sorry, these are not bad characters. They've just been subjected to bad decisions from a string of bad writers and editors with little faith or knowledge of the original concept and why it worked.

You misread what I wrote. I never said Hawkman, Atom, Aquaman and Adam Strange were bad characters.

They are all characters I dearly love. And, no doubt Kubert and Anderson, Kane, Cardy and Aparo and Infantino's work on them in the 1960s was excellent.

But at best, they are all C-list characters, by my estimation. Average.

But, I would disagree about the shelf-life of these heroes as stars of their own series. Each of them seem to have a limit of about 3 to 8 years on a series. Atom and Hawkman's series ran around 30 to 40 issues before the two books were combined and shortly thereafter canceled.

Adam Strange headlined Mystrey in Space for about 8 years before going Kaput.

Aquaman's original series was more robust but went bust in the late 60s or early 70s. Of course Aquaman had been around since 1941, but he was a backup character in books headlined by more popular characters.

Likewise, Hawkman shared the spotlight with Flash in Flash Comics in Golden Age, while Atom was a back-up to Green Lantern in All-american comics.

There have been numerous Hawkman, Aquaman and Atom series since their initial Silver-Age books died, but I don't think any of them hit 100 issues, which I think is a good benchmark for a long-running series. Of course long-running is a relative term.

But all of those series struggled both creatively (other than David's Aquaman in my opinion) and in sales.

Why, because despite being written and drawn over the years by some of the best in the business, the characters just aren't A- or even B-list, in my opinion.

I don't like the Punisher and haven't liked Wolverine since Paul Smith was the regular artist on X-men. I don't have the affection for either of those characters that I do for Hawkman, Atom, Adam Strange or Aquaman, but both Wolverine and the Punisher have sold a ton more comics since the mid 1980s.

If Johns and Van Sciver or Morrison and Quietly or for that matter Bendis and Finch did a run on those characters it would sell until they left.

But, put the same creators on Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and Flash and the book would sell many more copies because the latter group of characters are more popular and in my opinion better characters.

To me, I'd rather have a really good mini-series ever other year with each of those characters — something I could get excited about— rather than another bland attempt at an on-going series that peters out around issue 25, or 33 or 19 or 47.

But being the DC Zombie that I am, I'll give any book a try that features those characters.

[johnnystorm]

Sorry, I reread your post and I do see your point. I would agree that the characters were all successful with the correct creative team. Adam Strange faded after Infantino & Anderson left. Ditto Hawkman after Anderson, Atom after Kane.

Perhaps the problem lies in the stigma certain characters are under. Aquaman for example, is ridiculed in other media, and held up as the Poster Boy for lame heroes. Mishandling on the part of DC Comics, for sure. But as another post above stated, people just think Aquaman is lame. I dunno- I thought his cartoon series was cool as a kid, I liked it way better than the Superman half of the show. Maybe DC just needs to portray him as a masterful, strong, confident hero- sort of like the characterization in the B&B cartoon (well, maybe not quite so overpowering).

Another example is Blue Beetle - a perfectly great hero with a totally acceptable pedigree- it doesn't get better than having the name Steve Ditko attached to your creative team. However, DC allowed him to be used as a mockery in the 80s JLA books, and so that is what he became. Obviously after his death, a lot of people realized how good he really was, but by then it was too late (well, maybe not, there is this Zombie DC thing we were talking about).

I've never quite figured out why Hawkman doesn't sell...by all rights, he should be a huge success. He has all the right elements, a fantastic costume, great visual appearance...but nobody knows what to do with him. Another good example is The Moon Knight at Marvel. Or the Inhumans.

[The Toyroom]

Say;

The whole "Blackest Night" idea kinda reminds me of the storyline from the 70's Legion where Darkseid made evil clones of a bunch of superheroes....

Yup, "The Great Darkness Saga"....probably one of the best Legion epics EVER! Darkseid had evil clones of Superboy, Orion, Kalibak, a Guardian of Oa and Shadow Lass' ancestor, if I recall. I should pull out those issues and re-read 'em...great stuff!

[ctc]

>I would agree that the characters were all successful with the correct creative team.

Part of it has to do with current trends in other media. Characters like Superman, Spiderman, Batman.... they're prototypical superheroes; so you can expect them to be popular when superheroes are. But characters like Aquaman and Adam Strange are kinda keyed in to other trends. Aquaman was popular in the 60's; but so was oceanic exploration, Jaques Cousteau, etc. Adam Strange is a pulp-era sci-fi hero kind of character. He doesn't fit in when the more space opera or "hard" sci-fi is popular. And Hawkman.... he's had more origins than Wolverine; all of which seem like attempts to make him relevant during various eras. (Sometimes he's a mystic character; sometimes he's an alien supercop.) And Blue Beetle wasn't just the clown back in the 80's, he was a "best buddy" character. When superheroes got all mopey and brooding that didn't fly any more.

These characters are hard to separate from their fetters. (Aquaman without the ocean is just some clown who's kinda strong and wears green and orange tights.)

Don C.

[johnnystorm]

Just realized that if you look at the bottom of that original figure shot, there is a Black Lantern Corpse Martian Manhunter.

[The Toyroom]

Just realized that if you look at the bottom of that original figure shot, there is a Black Lantern Corpse Martian Manhunter.

If there's a 3rd wave, I'm sure well see Black Lantern Aquaman also.

[megocanada]

I also read that Ronnie Raymond Firestorm will appear as a Black Lantern. Don't know if a figure will be coming.

[BlackKnight]

I also read that Ronnie Raymond Firestorm will appear as a Black Lantern. Don't know if a figure will be coming.

Very cool !!!!

[BlackKnight]

If there's a 3rd wave, I'm sure well see Black Lantern Aquaman also.

They Better work up to a 6th wave of these figures.
Man,.. this is one of the Coolest Wave's from DC Direct ever imo.

[The Toyroom]

Boy, I seriously hope they use this opportunity to clean the dust off of some of these guys (Ronnie Raymond, Aquaman, Jonn Jonzz) and put them back on the shelf where they belong with the rest of the heroes. None of the new approaches worked on any of these characters during "One Year Later" so let's just have the ones back that everyone is familiar and happy with.

[BlackKnight]

Boy, I seriously hope they use this opportunity to clean the dust off of some of these guys (Ronnie Raymond, Aquaman, Jonn Jonzz) and put them back on the shelf where they belong with the rest of the heroes. None of the new approaches worked on any of these characters during "One Year Later" so let's just have the ones back that everyone is familiar and happy with.

Watcha Mean ?
They Killed them All,.. I'd say it worked out perfectly for them.

[The Toyroom]

Yeah they're dead but this is the perfect opportunity to revive 'em permanently after Blackest Night plays out.