What ever happened to all the Tim Burton Batman fans ?

[Mikey]

It seems like ever since the NEW Batman movies became the flavour of the day, people who used to think the Burton Batmans -- (I include 3-4 as well) --- were so great, have suddenly disappeared.

When the Burton movies came out, people seemed to have loved them sooo much, I felt like the only person in the world who didn't.

Today, Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever and Batman & Robin seem to be universally unliked by all (each to different degrees)

So this leaves me wondering .....
What happen to all their loyal fans today ?

Seems like almost nobody will admit to being a fan of the "classic movies"

m

[kingdom warrior]

I still am a fan of Burton's first Batman movie. I loved it when It came out. Although it's a different type of Batman. I like it for what it was. The rest of the movies seemed to really go off in their own direction.

I think it's just that the New Batman movies were really spot on that many fans now consider these to movies as definitive and legit version of Batman.......The Bat armor suit although still in a way ties it with the past movies.

[Earth 2 Chris]

In hindsight, they just aren't that good, in my opinion. The first movie just looks like it was done on a back lot. The effects are cheap-looking. The minatures look like minatures. Keaton's costume is ill-fitting. Jack's makeup is uneven (and it's not supposed to be). The storyline never was all that great. The dialog is corny. The only thing that really holds up well is the music. Elfman's score is still great, and still screams "Batman". Jack is still kind of fun as the Joker, and Keaton did okay, for what he had to work with. I will say the movie did capture some of the very early Kane/Finger flavor of the late 30s and 40s. That "mysterioso" element Kane always babbled on about.

Batman Returns is a slicker movie. It's better made. But it's barely a Batman movie. It's almost Burton's version of "Freaks". Batman just wanders through it.

I think the movies were well received at the time because most comic fans loved the fact that Batman was "dark" and not campy in them. And these were the first decent Super Hero movies since the Superman franchise fizzled out.

Chris

[palitoy]

I loved the first one back in the day, saw it in theatres several times, it was the first comic book movie I liked since Superman 2. I always saw it's flaws, clunky action, dragging romance plot line, a horrible bat costume but I didn't care as much. I love the first movie's score, it's sets, while kind of fake looking, also have a wonderful flair to them.

Not only has this movie's formula been copied to death, it hasn't aged all that well. I still don't hate the first Batman movie, I just don't think I want to sit through it anytime soon.

For the record, I hated Batman Returns, you're a goth, I get it. I find if Burton is on his own project he flourishes but if he is the hired gun, it's painful.

I also think my favorite Batman movie is begins because it just clicked, the Dark Knight was an excellent film but in shedding it's fantasy elements, it kind of lost me a little.

[Riffster]

i love them all, even the last Burton one

[ctc]

>In hindsight, they just aren't that good, in my opinion.

....'course, when I said that twenty years ago I got shouted down HUGE by an endless army of nerds....

I think it all goes back to what I said in the Judas Priest/Iron Maiden discussion a while back: folks NEED a winner. Even when there isn't any reason for one. That's why the Burton Batman COMPLETELY superceeded the Adam West one. THIS was the "state of the art" and therfore the only thing worthy of attention. The new flick inspires the same sort of thinking. Since there can only be one winner, the newest version HAS to be better than the old. Wether it is or not.

Don C.

[palitoy]

The new flick inspires the same sort of thinking. Since there can only be one winner, the newest version HAS to be better than the old. Wether it is or not.

I think the fact that the current movies embody the characters and the comics tone much better has more to do with it more than people simply needing a winner.

Nobody thumbed their nose at Donner's Superman when Returns came out.

[Earth 2 Chris]

I think it's interesting that even though Begins and Dark Knight are "darker" films than the previous movies, their Batman is more heroic and virtuous. Begins established that Batman wouldn't kill, but in Burton's movies Batman machine guns thugs and puts bombs down their pants.

I agree Burton is great on his own stuff, or on creepy stuff he can sink his teeth into. His POTA was horrid, despite the great look of the movie.

Chris

[toys2cool]

I still like'em all. especially the 1st one which is still my favorite Batman movie of all time

[ctc]

>I think the fact that the current movies embody the characters and the comics tone much better has more to do with it more than people simply needing a winner.

Maybe; but a lot of that tone had it's origins with the Burton Batman. Or at least the mania for it. The stage had been set just prior. "Dark Knight" was seen as the natural development of the somewhat dark (or at least heavy inked) comics of the 70's, which were a depature from the "Batman: space cop" style 60's stuff but WAS a derrivation of the early 70's Marvel style.... so it still followed a thruline. So the Burton film was seen as the "realization" of that idea. "Superman Returns" went too far afield from people's preconceptions of Supes to override the older films. In essence, it didn't register as a Superman film.

Don C.

[Mikey]

"Superman Returns" went too far afield from people's preconceptions of Supes to override the older films. In essence, it didn't register as a Superman film.

Very true, at least in my case.
I really wanted to love Superman Returns, but there was just something not there.
Something that was even in 3 & 4 but not in Returns.
To me, Returns almost felt like watching a Batman movie rather then Supes .... does that make sense ?

[kryptosmaster]

I like the first one. I still get chills when Keaton says, "I'm Batman".
Could've done without the garish "Dick Tracy" coloring to everything.
I would LOVE if Keaton would come back to the role as a older Batman ala Miller's Dark Knight version but I doubt that will ever happen.
I remember when I heard that he was going to be Batman and I thought, "Not Mr. Mom?! Oh, no. They've ruined Batman!", but it turned out pretty good. Also didn't care for the Prince additions to the soundtrack. Batdance? puhleese!
Rich

Oh, and the main thinG I hate about the new movies?:...THAT'S NOT THE BATMOBILE!!!!!!

[Airdave817]

I like the Tim Burton-Michael Keaton Batman films. They have their flaws - like Keaton's uneven and erratic approach to Bruce Wayne. Christian Bale has a very smooth, consistent approach to Wayne. I think his Batman is just a little too much, and I'm not a big fan of the armor costume anymore than bat-nipples.

Batman was a pretty cool movie back in the day. Batman Returns was okay. Not a fan of two villains in any movie. Chris Nolan seemed to handle Ra' Al Ghul and The Scarecrow pretty well in Batman Begins. That should be the template for any super-hero movie... Not a fan of the the whole Penguin storyline in Batman Returns. Like The Dark Knight it was twenty pounds of moive in a ten pound bag.

I would have loved to see Keaton and Burton do a Batman Begins type of thing without the armor. Keaton's costume looked awesome, even though the newer updated version looks more functional and realistic.

I put Batman Begins, Batman and Batman Returns in that order; then Adam West, then the animated movies. I don't even own Batman Forever or Batman & Robin. Maybe one day I will break down and the completist in me will get them. Not any time soon. I - just - can't - handle - Ah-nuld - as - Mister - Freeze!!! Uma's not bad.

[The Toyroom]

I'm still a BIG fan of the original "Batman" by Burton...yes some of it is corny and goofy by today's standards but it's still pretty solid, considering the time period, IMO. Where Burton started to lose me was in "Batman Returns"...Danny DeVito's Penguin portrayal was horrid and I felt even then that the whole "Penguin as Mayor" storyline was ripped right out of the "Hizzoner The Penguin" episode from the Adam West series (albeit skewed with Burton's vision). Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman was cool but not enough to hold the whole thing together. When the torch was passed to Joel Schumacher and Kilmer and Clooney everything really went to hell in a handbasket.

[Mikey]

One thing I didn't like about the Batman movies (the Burton's+)

He made all the bad guys as physical freaks.

Was it suppose to be like that in the comics ?
Or were the bad guys just nuts with a flair for dressing over the top ? - (like the TV series)