Dark Night Talk--with Spoilers

[Cosmicman]

SPOILERS BELOW

I liked it. I took my woman and oldest daughter to it along with my uncle. It was the first super hero movie in awhile that had me paying attention to detail feeling suspenseful through the whole movie.
I really enjoyed everything but the ending. I feel the whole "Batman is now an outlaw" is a crappy way of ending a movie. Especially Two-Faces brief cameo and then he is dead? What the heck????

Rumor has it that Mark Hamill is going to take Ledger's Joker and bring it to life exactly how Ledger did it. Of course, these are all rumors off fan-boy sites but I would like to see Joker return. He made the movie!!

[toys2cool]

SPOILERS BELOW

I liked it. I took my woman and oldest daughter to it along with my uncle. It was the first super hero movie in awhile that had me paying attention to detail feeling suspenseful through the whole movie.
I really enjoyed everything but the ending. I feel the whole "Batman is now an outlaw" is a crappy way of ending a movie. Especially Two-Faces brief cameo and then he is dead? What the heck????

Rumor has it that Mark Hamill is going to take Ledger's Joker and bring it to life exactly how Ledger did it. Of course, these are all rumors off fan-boy sites but I would like to see Joker return. He made the movie!!

well Mark does have that crazy Joker voice doubtful though

[Vortigern99]

SPOILERS BELOW
I really enjoyed everything but the ending. I feel the whole "Batman is now an outlaw" is a crappy way of ending a movie. Especially Two-Faces brief cameo and then he is dead? What the heck????

SPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSP OILERSSPOILERSSPOILERS

Batman becoming an "outlaw" is the only way to end a movie called The Dark Knight. He has to take the blame for Two-Face's crimes so that Harvey's handsome face can serve as an inspiration to Gotham. Batman has no face; he has a mask, a shroud. He has failed to inspire people the way he planned. The extremeness of his brand of justice is out of step with society; he must be an outsider, a Robin Hood, always (at least for now) operating just beyond the margins of the law. In future films, if any, he can return to the city's good graces, but in this one he had to take a bullet for Gotham City. To do otherwise would have been to contradict the lesson he learned when he let Harvey take the fall for his identity earlier in the movie.

As to Harvey's death, two points: One, his multiples scenes do not constitute a "cameo" by a wide margin. And two, he was breathing almost imperceptibly in the first shot of his prone body. Gordon claims Dent is dead, but if the movies continue, we'll likely see Two-Face locked up in Arkham Asylum along with the Joker, Scarecrow and Falcone.

Rumor has it that Mark Hamill is going to take Ledger's Joker and bring it to life exactly how Ledger did it.

Personally I think this would be AWESOME. Hamill would do his own take on the role, of course -- maybe an amalgam of the frisky animated clown he voiced, and Ledger's dry-wit psychopath. The only drawback here is that Hamill is about 20 years older than Ledger....

[Hector]

SPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSPOILERSSP OILERSSPOILERSSPOILERS

Batman becoming an "outlaw" is the only way to end a movie called The Dark Knight. He has to take the blame for Two-Face's crimes so that Harvey's handsome face can serve as an inspiration to Gotham. Batman has no face; he has a mask, a shroud. He has failed to inspire people the way he planned. The extremeness of his brand of justice is out of step with society; he must be an outsider, a Robin Hood, always (at least for now) operating just beyond the margins of the law. In future films, if any, he can return to the city's good graces, but in this one he had to take a bullet for Gotham City. To do otherwise would have been to contradict the lesson he learned when he let Harvey take the fall for his identity earlier in the movie.

As to Harvey's death, two points: One, his multiples scenes do not constitute a "cameo" by a wide margin. And two, he was breathing almost imperceptibly in the first shot of his prone body. Gordon claims Dent is dead, but if the movies continue, we'll likely see Two-Face locked up in Arkham Asylum along with the Joker, Scarecrow and Falcone.

Rumor has it that Mark Hamill is going to take Ledger's Joker and bring it to life exactly how Ledger did it.

Personally I think this would be AWESOME. Hamill would do his own take on the role, of course -- maybe an amalgam of the frisky animated clown he voiced, and Ledger's dry-wit psychopath. The only drawback here is that Hamill is about 20 years older than Ledger....

Fantastic analogy...well said, my man.

The only thing I highly doubt it will happen is Mark Hamill playing the Joker on screen. Sadly he is just too old now. Like you said, had it been about 20 years earlier...like in the first Tim Burton Batman...Hamill would have made a much better Joker than Jack Nicholson...who I never really embraced as a true Joker...Jack was simply too pudgy for the role.

[megoscott]

Dark Night Talk--with Spoilers

I've moved some of the spoiler posts from the other thread to this one. Carry on!

[Vortigern99]

Good idea! So, just to get this off my chest:

TWO-FACE DOES NOT DIE! The first shot of his prone body clearly shows the ribcage rising and falling. Both my wife and I noticed this. I think the Nolans are too precise and careful filmmakers to leave in a flawed shot of a supposedly dead character breathing.

No, I feel certain that Gordon claimed publicly that Dent was dead, but in reality he's locked away in Arkham under intense scrutiny... along with Scarecrow, the Joker and Falcone.

[Hector]

I was thinking the same thing...Two-Face is alive.

[joshvox]

Count me in with the crowd that thinks maybe Two-Face is still alive. It would be very unfortunate if he was not--they really nailed that character. It would be easy for them to pull off something like what Vortigern mentioned. I seriously doubt that Hamill will be playing the Joker, he is probably too old, and my feeling is that they will go with a different villain in the next movie (making him even older if they decide to go with the Joker in the 4th movie). I do think the Joker will be recast at some point, of course depending on how many movies this team makes.

One of the things that irked me a bit was when that Wayne employee figured out Bruce was Batman. I really hate it when something like that happens--i.e. someone not important to the story finds out the ID of the superhero.

I read a seriously early rumor--mentioned by Oldman at some point--that the Riddler is gonna be the next villian. Of course this is only a rumor and could be B.S.

While doing my usual nitpicking of great movies, I came across what I feel is a bit of a problem in the narrative of the movie. Specifically, the pace of some of the non-action scenes. For example, when Bruce and Alfred are talking about the Joker as a man who "just wants to watch the world burn." The lines feel rushed to me, no pauses for thought by the characters or for dramatic purposes. I feel like this happened quite a bit--does anyone else feel this way?

[kingdom warrior]

I read a seriously early rumor--mentioned by Oldman at some point--that the Riddler is gonna be the next villian. Of course this is only a rumor and probably B.S.

I can see this happening. It would be a good choice since these movies are more serious. The Riddler would work well as long as they stay away from the over the top Riddler Gorshin/Carrey style. Also Selina kyle could be introduced too.

[megoscott]

I enjoyed the part where the employee found out the truth---Fox's response was one of the best lines in the movie---and it was a great turn of events when the Joker wanted to kill him to keep the fun for himself and Bruce saved him...

Alfred's backstory as some jungle adventurer--I didn't follow all of it, but that was interesting.

It would be a joke/crime to replace an Oscar caliber actor like Ledger with Mark Hammill. No, that role died with Ledger, ironic that they kept him alive in this movie.

[namtab29]

i felt like the weird "cat" reference was a hint.

what better villain to bring into film #3 now that Rachel is gone?

and frankly i hope they don't bring Two-Face back--i was surprised just how much Two-Face there was in the movie, and i feel like seeing a whole movie with him would now have kind of a "seen it" feel to it.

and even though i was disappointed the film was so unrelentingly dark (poor Bruce i think doesn't have one moment of joy or satisfaction in the whole 2 and 1/2 hours), i think this is Nolan's Empire Strikes Back--the 2nd chapter is super-dark to set up an ultimate uplifting redemption at the end.

rob!

[joshvox]

I enjoyed the part where the employee found out the truth---Fox's response was one of the best lines in the movie---and it was a great turn of events when the Joker wanted to kill him to keep the fun for himself and Bruce saved him...

Honestly, and maybe this sounds morbid, but I would have been ok with it as well if they guy would have gotten killed. I did enjoy the interplay there with the Joker--but now there is just this guy sitting out there who knows the ID of batman--I don't think Nolan would ever do anything with it--but it seems to me to be perfect fodder for a lesser story teller later on in the franchise should that occur. Again, the fact that I have to take something like that this far just to find a flaw is a testament to just how good this movie is.

[Earth 2 Chris]

My wife and I were divided on whether Two-Face was really dead or not. One, if he's dead, then Batman pretty much killed him, even if it was to save Gordon's son. After all the the huallaballoo over Batman not breaking his code, even after Joker gave him opportunity after opportunity to do so, it seems odd that neither him or Gordon commented on this. I thought Two-Face is probably alive, and Batman and Gordon had him taken away somewhere. After all, they faked Gordon's death earlier in the movie. Cleary the public believes Dent is dead, and died a hero.

Cindy thought he was just plain dead. I saw it a second time yesterday with a friend, and we both thought it could go either way. With Ledger gone and I think the Joker with him, Two-Face may be coming back. I hope so. He did a great job.

I can't see them bringing the Joker back in this series. It would be too much of a slap in the face to Ledger's great performance. No one would want to fill his shoes anyway. Hammil is great as the voice of the Joker, but he is far too old as others have said.

Maybe the Joker will be said to be operating out of Arkham, and all we will hear will be his (Ledger's) cackle. Or maybe Harley will come in and do his dirty work for him.

Batman becoming an "outlaw" is the only way to end a movie called The Dark Knight. He has to take the blame for Two-Face's crimes so that Harvey's handsome face can serve as an inspiration to Gotham. Batman has no face; he has a mask, a shroud. He has failed to inspire people the way he planned. The extremeness of his brand of justice is out of step with society; he must be an outsider, a Robin Hood, always (at least for now) operating just beyond the margins of the law. In future films, if any, he can return to the city's good graces, but in this one he had to take a bullet for Gotham City. To do otherwise would have been to contradict the lesson he learned when he let Harvey take the fall for his identity earlier in the movie.

Right on. I thought it was a great ending. Really hit at the core of Batman, who doesn't care about himself or what others think of him, only the safety of Gotham. And Gordon's speech at the end was fantastic. Definitely Nolan's "Empire" as someone else said!

Chris

[toys2cool]

i still don't understand why they made a figure for scarecrow and not Two-Face...why?

they probably didn't want to spoil it,like Disney did with Dick Tracy when they released the Blank figure with Madonnas face,I know Batman fans know Harvey was 2-face,but little kids and other people probably didn't


was anyone else surprised when Zeus the big black prisoner dude threw out the detonator? I thought it was cool an unexpected

[Vortigern99]

The subplot with the character who discovered Batman's identity is the catalyst for the entire main plot about the hospital evac and demolition. Without the one, the other could not have happened. The script by the Nolan brothers is extremely balanced and tightly edited; remove a single scene, and the logic of the plot falls apart.