The Asian Market for 8" format Action Figures

[PeterRR]

I don't pretend to be a psychologist here but this is an evident clinical case of someone who really dies to own something but just can't...

Maybe your right but I collected through the 80's and 90's and to me that was the junk toys era. Like HOF Gijoes and early toy biz figures. I throught it was over with the Asian markets making figures we want. All I want to nice made 8" Superhero figures. I bought a few beauiful custom made figures. Why can't Mattel do it?

[PeterRR]

I've been checking out those RAH220 scale figures that Guy1x pointed out to me, and I'm just blown away at that Wild Things Max and level of detail on the Kamen Rider figures. Incredible levels of articulation and pose-ability, multiple hands, accessories and attention to detail on the costumes. Of course none of these figures retail for under 10,000 yen (more or less a hundred US bucks).

I would rather spend $100 on one Beauiful figure then spend $100.00 on 4 crappy figures

[GUYx1]

RAH220 can be pretty cool, but those toys are meant for collectors, not to be played with like Mattel.
Hopefully Medicom has made changes to the bodies, because
on the majority of the initial RAH220 figures about 5-6 years ago
there was a joint that attached each leg to each butt cheek that if broken was really hard to replace and bolt the leg back on. (though some people used a screw)
I know I sure went through enough of those bodies doing repairs.
Most of the time the rah 220 figures land in the $40-$75 dollar range.
The thing to remember is that Japanes toys tend to use a stiffer vinyl for more detailed casts and any accessory that comes with the toys is more likely to be semi-fragile (and NOT REPLACEABLE like mattel parts in boiling water)

Medicom can also be king of the "some assembly required"
I remember having to Wire The inner brain of one figure.
A lot of the Aisin detailed figures were offshoots of cyborg. Cyborg costumes looked simple and basic. Initially Cyborgs suits were just like Vinyl Kaiju pieces put on a combat joe in a wetsuit.
I have seen 20 year old customs thich seem to prove this sort of thing could be done.
But back in the 1980's the Japanese realized that to keep people's interest better detail was needed.
Timehouse (who later partnered with Medicom) released suits which were basically garage kits. Fragile and expensive as hell for a mid 1980's market.

The japanese took existing figures and made their own revisions to almost every format. They Worked with hasbro and made versions of American favorites on Classic Gi joe bodies, Hall of fame bodies, Modern style 12" joe bodies.
Everything imaginable. None of them look remotely aimed at children.
I still love my Hall of Fame Fist of the Northstar Kenshiro - and it still blows away all the usa hall of fame releases.
But then again none of those toys were sold for the $20 - 30 price range.
If we are lucky, the Japanese will get the Mattel molds and do a radical reboot, the same as they did with Hasbro's molds.
It is amazing what you can do to a toyline with a bit more research & development.

[samurainoir]

I would rather spend $100 on one Beauiful figure then spend $100.00 on 4 crappy figures

This is why the Hot Toys and Medicom figures are an interesting case study to follow right now for us in the 8" hobby. For all that do complain about a $20 price point, there is obviously a higher end consumer that feels the same as you do shelling about big bucks for a Dark Knight Joker that has articulated eyes, multiple hands/head/accesories, and an incredible attention to detail.

I think we're all watching with interest to see how Zica does at the $30 price point with Buck and Adam West. They are obviously a more specialized item than Trek or Superheroes, but the increased level of detail does set the bar higher.

[samurainoir]

Thank you so much Guyx1, your wealth of information is extremely helpful, given the fact that I'm just going on the japanese websites I've found. Do you happen to be located in Japan?

So I'm assuming that the 10,000 yen prices are the after-market? $40-75 actually sounds like the reasonable ball-park someone would pay retail for a more detailed collector oriented figure.

Would you know the difference between the RAH220 and the RAH220dx bodies?

I'll definitely be checking out these figures when I'm in HK. Appreciate the heads up about them.

[GUYx1]

I'm in the states. Just a hardcore cyborg geek.
There is huge aftermarket action, but you have to seriously grease the palms of levels and levels of dealers.
If it is a big release you just PREORDER it at the show and it could be TWO YEARS before it sees the light of day.
Same stresses you feel here are happening in asia too. Only the japanese companies will not comment on a forum about it you just have to just grit your teeth until the toys show up. Sometimes it is 2 months, sometimes longer. Sometimes the preorders are cheaper - or just way more elaborate - they are usually worth the trouble.
First you need an agent to help you make purchases, as Japanese do not like to sell to foreigners, but after you are IMMERSED you can buy the limited to 10 produced items. (and I'm talking vinyl, not resin heads folks)
It's pretty scary.
People go to the asian toy shows and have to wire the usa for money to pay for their hotel rooms because they maxed out all their cards.
(I haven't gone to Japan, it is scary enough on the sidelines.)
I have not owned the RAH220 dx myself, but the pigs posted above are of that style. in general you still have to be careful with the joints themselves as
All Asian toys are more high maintance than USA toys.
If Japanese decide a US toy company's body (such as barbie or GI joe) is worth working with in Japan then you totally get the best of both worlds.

Here is a link that will keep you busy.
「rah 220��検索�果 - Yahoo!オークション

[Astronut]

Maybe your right but I collected through the 80's and 90's and to me that was the junk toys era.

Have to ask... if it was the "junk toys era" then why did you collect them? You must have liked them, correct?

[PeterRR]

Have to ask... if it was the "junk toys era" then why did you collect them? You must have liked them, correct?

I did collect a lot of figures from the 80's and 90's and glad I sold them all. Today you couldn't give away a HOF Joe or a early toy biz figure. I was very lucky to dump all that junk. In the late 90's a company named Dragon came out with the high detailed 1/6th German figures then everything changed. Hot Toys popped up and soon the whole toy market made better stuff ,except Hasbro and Mattel the still keep on putting junky figures. When I first heard about the retro line I was so happy then that all came crashing down when I seen pictures of them .I was so disappointed in Mattel. I think the only thing that attracts today collectors is the packaging . It card look retro not the figure. Hasbro made a run of 9" DC and they were also disappointing but better then Mattels . But what should I have expected from Mattel. Their superman return figure were garbage.

[Astronut]

Okay, I see the point about crappy figures in the 80s-90s. Two things I don't get though. 1) you failed to mention that Macfarlane Toys had a huge impact on detail in action figures 2) what could you have *possibly* seen in the pictures of Wave 1 of the Mattel 8" Retro line that would have made you say they were crap? I mean, as a rational person? They look almost identical to WGSH Megos. This doesn't even make sense to me.

[samurainoir]

I was very lucky to dump all that junk. In the late 90's a company named Dragon came out with the high detailed 1/6th German figures then everything changed. Hot Toys popped up and soon the whole toy market made better stuff.

Just to put this discussion back on the rails, wasn't Dragon one of the HK toy companies? I seem to recall their stuff was in the $40-50+ range at the time? They did some 1/6th figures with HK actor likenesses like Jackie Chan, Andy Lau and Chow Yun Fat figures as well?

[samurainoir]

Okay, I see the point about crappy figures in the 80s-90s. Two things I don't get though. 1) you failed to mention that Macfarlane Toys had a huge impact on detail in action figures 2) what could you have *possibly* seen in the pictures of Wave 1 of the Mattel 8" Retro line that would have made you say they were crap? I mean, as a rational person? They look almost identical to WGSH Megos. This doesn't even make sense to me.

Can you take this over to one of the hundreds of Mattel Body threads 'nut? Unless you can tie it in with the relevance to the Asian Market for toys? There is some neat insight here that I would hate to lose with the signal to noise going on.

[Astronut]

I was just going with the flow. Relax. Life is more fun that way. Arigato gozaimasu!

[cjefferys]

For what it's worth, when I was in Japan this spring I saw absolutely none of the modern 8" US released figures in either the primary market (eg. TRU) or the secondary market (none at the many toy and comics stores I visited in Akihabara, etc). Although I could imagine that the POTA and Trek stuff might sell pretty well if available, I saw nothing. As for US superheroes, forget it. Sure, Batman and Superman are well known, but the majority of Japanese (even comic and toy geeks) are likely unfamiliar with more secondary DC characters like Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Sinestro, etc. I'm sure that the number of Japanese comics fans who read US superhero comics and are familiar with the lesser known characters is far, far less than US comics fans who read manga.

Just to put this discussion back on the rails, wasn't Dragon one of the HK toy companies? I seem to recall their stuff was in the $40-50+ range at the time? They did some 1/6th figures with HK actor likenesses like Jackie Chan, Andy Lau and Chow Yun Fat figures as well?

Yep, Dragon was a HK based company. I bought a couple of their Jackie Chan and Hero figures here for around $40-50 a pop. The likenesses and detail fall far short of what companies like Hot Toys can do though.

[GUYx1]

That's kinda how evolution goes. Like comparing 8 different versions of the 12" Kerberos 'Jin Roh' Panzer cop figure. Dragons is in there somewhere, as are the various Medicoms & Takara. While Hot toys is NOW rapidly becoming the industry standard, I remember when they were just another 1/6 scale company that paled by comparison to Dragon. I remember when Sideshow was the next big thing. How many versions of 12" Hellboy, Batman, Bladerunner, alien, Predator etc that can a person buy before it seems redundant...
Like collecting over a half dozen AHI variations, They are cool, but when you're talking $200+ a pop it loses it's charm
It's tough to settle for just one Asian $100-$300 figure, when a new one will always come out that is way better and makes yours worthless by comparison.
I remember being sooo hot for the "original" japanese blade runner custom in the 1990's. And the German made Action man space marines! Breathtakin in the day - they cost a fortune, but they are nothing compared to any of the production figures out today. Totally worthless now.

[David Lee]

I know for me the Asian market has always been the standard. It seems that figures that originate there become the standard everywhere else. The re-surgence in the 8 inch market really started here so it may not ever see prominance in Asia, and that makes me sad,

The Asian manufacturers (HK,Tiawan,China), all do one thing the very best and that is refine what has already been created, and man they do it so well. I know I would love to see some high quality 8 inch stuff flow from there. We have tried very hard to make them "get" the detail that can be achieved in 8 inch scale, but it's tough to keep that price point down. We are working with a new production company and hopefully we can do more of that "high quality" Asian inspired stuff in the future.

But like Sammy Said Suckers walk, money talks! . But it can't touch my three lock box..

-Dave