Action figure economics

[Sandman9580]

The CEO's get paid according to what they contract for and their reputation in making sure the company can turn a profit for shareholders.

Companies pay CEO's for what they hope for is expertise to bring in more profit, they don't pay them because they have a whole bunch of surplus cash lying around.

It's sort of like you paying for an expensive financial planner because he/she has been known to get real results in growing your income.

With a lot of emphasis on "sort of", right? Financial planners aren't given a sizable chunk of your portfolio ("preferred stock"), and they aren't given a Golden Parachute clause that guarantees them a huge (as in, huge) bonus even if your portfolio tanks.

If corporations are going to pay irrational sums of money regardless of the quality of governance... then I wish they'd just hire me as a CEO. I'm sure I'd be more than capable of running their company into the ground for $25 million.

[LonnieFisher]

the retro action retails for two dollars more than the monster high. Monster high has lots of accessories and bigger package and seems like a much better deal.

[samurainoir]

Don't get too excited, some of us just say the same thing over and over again.
(...now where did those damned kids on my lawn go?)

I turned the hose on 'em for you Tot!


Astronut, we all understand how passionate you are about rediscovering Megos and your wish for the line to succeed as much as the rest of us.

You've made your opinions quite clear at this point. I heartily encourage you to sit back and take in some of the atmosphere of the museum and get to know the players. Read through old threads where similar discussions have already taken place prior to your arrival. They are incredibly informative and enlightening in regards to many of your questions and concerns.

It is astounding how much access we have to the principals of the various companies like EMCE, CastAWay, Zica, Biff Bang Pow etc. that have worked so hard to spearhead the revival of the 8" retrol cloth Mego-style action figure out of pure passion and reverence. You will find them incredibly down to earth and often surprisingly candid when it comes to the day to day of their business, and that they are regular folk just like the rest of us and not necessarily faceless entities working in mysterious ways.

Explore other corners of this forum and chat about some of your other passions and interests, both nostalgic and current. Take some time to relax and ease into our community, but most of all have fun and spread the joy!

[ctc]

>happy meal toys are often joint promotions between whatever property and the fast food joint.

They’re a Lost Lead: an item made to get you into the store/interested in the product. Most of the time, LL.s are considered marketing, and not expected to make money. (Hence the “lost” part; as in lost revenue.)

>Monster high has lots of accessories and bigger package and seems like a much better deal.

Scale plays a big part in it too. I’d bet the Monster High toys have runs five times that of the retro heroes. I’m sure someone could provide actual numbers, but I’d bet the Retro Heroes are released in runs of 25,000 to 50,000 units. Retro Heroes ISN’T a big priority for Mattel; at least not right now. It’s an experiment until sales show otherwise. That’s why you don’t see tv ads, wide distribution, a special DVD series.... ‘Course, those are the things that MAKE a hit. Catch 22. But Mattel would prefer an in-house line that they don’t have to pay royalties on over a licensed one that has people outside the company expecting a cut, licensing fees and an amount of control over the product.

Stores are another confounding variable. Usual discount for a store is about 50% of the final cost; that is, they pay half of what they sell it to you for. (NOTE: I know this is a very rough number; and the item, production deals, distributor deals, number bought, etc alters the value so’s to be somewhere between 30% and 65%, but 50% is pretty good overall for sake of discussion.) It’s easy to say “GRRRR! Them nasty-bad stores are ripping me off ‘cos it costs them almost NOTHING for this stuff!!!” but a store sits on a LOT of merchandise. They make up for stuff that sits a while with the stuff that sells now. (Look at all them back issues not making money for your favourite store....) Hence the markup on popular stuff, and the really low clearance prices for things taking up space. Most local comic shops have really thin margins of profit.

It works a little differently for huge chains, but the ATTITUDE is the same. Worse maybe, since it’s easier for a TRU to unload old stock than your local shop. (TRU could throw it out, and claim a loss. Your local shop has too much invested in that one $30 RA Batman to do so.)

Don C.

[LonnieFisher]

Retro Heroes ISN’T a big priority for Mattel; at least not right now. It’s an experiment until sales show otherwise.

This is not true. They made a multi-year decision when they started making them. It isn't just testing the market.

[ctc]

>It isn't just testing the market.

Maybe not, but it doesn't seem like a big thing for them. More like they're keeping their hand in just incase this 8" thing takes off.

Don C.

[LadyZod]

I think everyone is missing one obvious piece of the puzzle: Toys R Us.

I'll use Star Wars as an example. Why does TRU sell the exact Hasbro 3 3/4" figure as Target for $10, when Target sells it for $8?

It's the same toy. It cost the same to make the one sold at TRU as it cost to make the one at Target. Same molds, same factory labor, same shipping containers, same customs inspections, same CEO at Hasbro is still making his millions.

This leads me to believe one of two things:
A) Target is making less money per figure than TRU or
B) Target is getting a better deal from Hasbro due to the amount of stores they have vs TRU.

Since the Retro Heroes are exclusive to TRU, the price is what it is.
(Remember, TRU is no longer the toy juggernaut it once was. They've have to close down stores and THEIR market is being taken over by Target and Walmart.)

*IF* this line was carried by Target or Walmart, I believe we would see a lower price in THOSE stores, but TRU would continue to keep their price as it is. Their contract with Mattel won't change regardless how many more units Mattel produces, or how much cheaper the production becomes to them.

I tend to look at these toys, as I look at the EMCE product (remember, EMCE helped with the Retro figures, but the buck stops at Mattel), the BBP products and the Castaway products in the same way... they are as Sideshow, Dragon, and BBI are to Hasbro (you 1/6 scale fans know what I'm saying.)

Can Hasbro produce a wonderful 12 inch figure with all their vast resources, sculptors, factories, etc? Probably. But they don't. They put out a decent product as a reasonable price.

But Sideshow, BBI and Dragon put out AMAZING 12 inch figures, at a lower production run... and the cost shows it. They are expensive. Are they worth the extra money? If you're an adult 1/6 collector trying to get something new out of your hobby. Not a great value for kids.

Mattel's retro line is not really meant for kids. It's meant for the adult collector who will probably keep it carded, and would never open it to discover loose limbs or crackly emblem. Sure, many do buy it for their kids, as I'm sure many 1/6 collectors have given a BBI or Dragon figure to their child.

$20 is not a parent buying it for their kid price.

$20 is for the adult who sees their original megos on ebay being sold in the hundreds of dollars because it's MOC, and this $20 toy he found at TRU while shopping with his kid ignited a sense of nostalgia, and he figures, I can't afford a real carded mego Superman because I have bills to pay, but I can buy this $20 one and put it in my office!

[PNGwynne]

BK--the difference between Big Jim & Retro is that Big Jim was a well-engineered figure that holds up even today (even with rubber arms!).

The later Euro Big Jims even had jointed arms & gripping hands. Heck, second generation Big Jim (aka Max Steel) was better than the retro body.

Honestly, I can't fathom Mattel. But it's not exclusive to them, either--look how Hasbro crapped out new 12" Joes in recent years. (Good points, Lady Zod.)

[LonnieFisher]

I think everyone is missing one obvious piece of the puzzle: Toys R Us.

Since the Retro Heroes are exclusive to TRU, the price is what it is.

This is also misinformation. Comic book stores are not getting them from Toys-R-Us. So they aren't that exclusive.

[mightyquinn]

If you've seen the documentary on how Wal-mart operates, you would see how manufacturers are forced to lower their prices. Maybe Target is getting to be the same way. I'm seeing more and more toy stores go under at the hands of wal-mart and TRU seems to be struggling also. Buy more = better deal

[LadyZod]

This is also misinformation. Comic book stores are not getting them from Toys-R-Us. So they aren't that exclusive.

They are exclusive to Toys R Us as far as mass retailers go. Or as they say in my neck of the woods, as far as BIG BOX stores go. That is enough to qualify as exclusive to the majority of public.


Comic shops are a niche. They usually do not have a direct account with Mattel like say TRU. They usually go through Diamond, a middleman, who will take a piece of the pie.

Some larger comic shops may set up a direct account with Mattel, as they have done so with Hasbro, but because they do not order the same quantities as a large retail chain, their prices will still be high.

[EMCEtoys]

I would never play the "whoa as me", but I know it's a labor of love more often than Champagne and Caviar

Though I can't help reflect... Remember just a five or six years ago when we paid $10 for a DM body and we were darn proud to have it? When China made repros cost $5 each... You were not even coming close to a full figure for $20! I think a little perspective is in order here... I'll be the first to say I wish everything was cheaper... but as a person who know what it really costs? It's a good deal...

-Dave

hear, hear.

[EMCEtoys]

What are your thoughts about these?

These are nice 11" figures with clothing, lots of accessories, boots and very attractive packaging all for only $5.00 each. Is that great deal or what?

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn184/livnxxxl/2010/DSC09939.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn184/livnxxxl/2010/DSC09941.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn184/livnxxxl/2010/DSC09940.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn184/livnxxxl/2010/DSC09943.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn184/livnxxxl/2010/DSC09942.jpg

These did not take no $12 million dollar a year CEO to stand behind others to produce. Some times companies spend millions of dollars to save a quarter. Not very good business sense IMO.

i can speak to that, having looked into doing generic figures like this myself.

these are produced by those infamous factories you hear about on the news. we get solicited all the time by these factories, most of which are in the few rural areas of china not turned into large industrial cities by the bigger corporations. no transparency, no factory inspections, and you feel like you're working with an arms dealer. no thanx.

folks like mattel work with factories that are in a completely different category, including those with unions and increasing quality of life. because of the size of their company, they have to.

my recommendation to everyone is to read up on the evolution of chinese manufacturing over the last 20 years and the disparity between the factories that work for large companies and the small ones that churn out the drugstore "shut-up" toys.

business week just did a piece on the largest electronics factory in china and it would be a good start for anyone wanting to look behind the curtatin:

The Man Who Makes Your iPhone - BusinessWeek

as for the "0.5 for plastic 0.10 for a worker", that statement is just plain ignorant. david lee, the zica fellow and i can attest to the fact that we don't even deal in that universe, and for us at emce, it's our core business, not a side gig. in fact, neither does mattel -- the additional costs applied to increasing quality of life at the factories have probably raised the per-figure price to close to what we've been paying, frankly. the difference between them and us is that they can afford the costs of changing the product along the way.

which brings me to the point about amortizing costs of the bodies. we made it clear in another thread that mattel has given us all the opportunity to look at changes in tooling going forward. that should pretty much silence speculation that Big Bad Mattel is looking to mug people with future waves of releases.

this may be the last i speak on the topic, not for any lack of wanting to be transparent, but once i saw the title of this thread i shuddered. the economics of this business are a) vastly different from one end of the spectrum to the other and b) about as easy to understand as lovecraftian geometry.

[EMCEtoys]

When you get into the $10 and under range the dolls become fairly basic. $6 dolls generally don't even have full clothes anymore. I'm seeing molded tops becoming much more common. When you get into the higher end non-playline dolls the prices can get rather high.

Barbie actually has collecting tiers. Pink Label being the lowest (which is above playline in quality but still with massmarket unlimited production runs) and Platinum Label (the most limited and very expensive) which is the highest.

Barbie Collecting Tiers. I hope this helps a bit.

http://www.barbiecollector.com/collecting/tiers/

Wow, this link was really helpful! Thanx for posting it...gonna try to overlay it on some internal observations we've had about the action figure collector. Great insight!

[EMCEtoys]

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1...zzstuff323.jpg
the retro action retails for two dollars more than the monster high. Monster high has lots of accessories and bigger package and seems like a much better deal.

monster high has a larger run, is a mattel-generated property (like major matt mason), has retail and media partners all over the country and is probably priced to sell in order to get the property exposed.

god know, it worked in my house. :-)