body issues

[rche]

warning: lengthy post

OK,

So I've been looking into some possible fix solutions for the lurching business with the Mattel bodies and, tho I don't have an easy fix, I think I have found one good cause.

The Green Arrow I gave my son is a little knock kneed, but aside from that is really sturdy and has had some serious playtime. It still stands up just fine; no flopping or automatic sitting position thing going on with it.

The Superman he just got on Easter Sunday, is a totally different story. He came out of the box with the lurch stance and falls forward very easily.

My boy is fascinated with how things are put together, so these two have been swapping jumpsuits and boots 2 or 3 times a day since Superman showed up. (btw- supes looks pretty good in the GA jumper, but the green gloves clash like lighting with that blue supersuit). I took advantage of one of the 'Papa can you help me fix it' moments this morning to take a good look at both bodies to see what could be done about Supes lurch.

I originally thought Supes just needed the elastic tightened and performed a little stitchery that should have pinched it in a bit. But; still lurching. Then, taking a look at how the torso was made, I realized it is more similar to the Captain Action - Action Boy - PM Action Jackson bodies. These have a taller pelvis that sort of fits up and around the bottom of the torso more than the MEGO or the Mattel pelvis does. So then I shaved a little bit around the inside of the pelvis to bring it closer to the CA style and roughed up the torso with some 80 grit sandpaper. Still lurching.

I was about to take some more off the inside of the pelvis when I noticed that the bottom of the torso was being pushed forward by the connection joint in the pelvis. That is, the pin that holds the pelvis together has a male and female side. The female side is fatter and thus, pushes up against the bottom of the torso. This in turn pushes the torso forward and causes the figure to either lurch forward, or stick its buttocks out like a queen.

I took a look at the GA pelvis and.... The connection joints are opposite on that pelvis. I took a look at the loose Mattel bodies I have been working on to kitbash and sure enough, all of them had the same style pelvis as the Supes. So, I am thinking there was a running change in that design that is a major culprit in the lurching problem.

The GA pelvis has the female (larger) part of the joint on the front of the pelvis. This actually helps to keep the torso upright by acting as a 'stop' for the rotation at that joint. The Supes (and presumably the rest of the problem wave 1 figures) has the female part of the joint on the back of the torso.

Now I just need to figure out a way to build up the joint at the front of the pelvis and see if that helps old Supes stand up straight and tall.

[drmego]

So you took apart both bodies? I would love to see some clear pictures
to show Mattel. I know they are working on the issue. We are assuming
that the lurching is caused by the slack on the elastic.

[rche]

Yes, I thought it was slack as well.

But now it looks to me to be a combination of that male/female fitting on the pelvis along with the fitting pin the elastic wraps around in the upper torso.

The pin in the upper torso has strain relief plastic molded around it like so --0--
This makes the elastic ride more towards the front of the figure, which also adds to the forward lurch of the body. If the relief plastic was molded with a notch at the pin, the elastic would seat more towards the back of the figure and the pulling force would be more concentrated on keeping the figure standing erect.

I will try to send you some pics. My camera is not the greatest with macros, but I will do my best.

[Orion1]

You can help fix the wobbly torso by using pvc tubing as shown here:

Action Figure Insider Fix that Bad Back!

As a side note I know that it does work as I have already done it to my loose torso figures. You can get the tubing at the Home Depot plumbing section.

You can also take a 1 inch X 3 inch piece of Gauze and fold it over itself then wrap it around the torso elastic and stuff it inside the joint.

This fixes the torso "hunch" but those horribly loose and wobbly hip joints are going to need a new mold to fix. The inner hip joint "slit" where it attaches to the elastic is the problem.

[scott metzger]

The overall design doesn't give much surface area to hold a pose, which I though was a big part of the trouble, but I hadn't noticed the peg problem at all. An excellent catch there!

[rche]

The overall design doesn't give much surface area to hold a pose, which I though was a big part of the trouble, but I hadn't noticed the peg problem at all. An excellent catch there!

the surface area bit is what I was attempting to work on.
I agree that the entire pelvis needs another look at. If Mattel can get the legs to seat properly in it and give it some more seating area for the bottom of the torso, it should hold together just fine.

I also think the slots in the legs need to be extended a bit and perhaps some texture (like the goose bumps on T! mego) added to the ball of the joint. This would help in holding poses with the legs. As is, the elastic bends when you put the legs in any sort of pose and pulls the legs back to the knock kneed straight position immediately.

[thunderbolt]

If Mattel would just do away with the retro style stringing of the legs and go t oa ball and socket joint at the waist and hip, the figure would be fine.

[rche]

sorry to take so long to get these pics, but here they are.

The first pic is the GA pelvis, the second is Superman (and all other mkII figs)
They are facing the same direction; front of the figure towards the right.
The female part of the assembly peg is towards the front of the GA pelvis, but it is towards the back of the mkII pelvis. If you try to seat the body into the pelvis any further than it already is, this raised portion of the assembly peg pushes up on the rear of the torso, causing the upper body to lean forward.
I don't have internal pics, but there is some stress relief plastic alongside the assembly peg in the center of the figures chest. This is where the elastic wraps around to hold the pelvis assembly in place. The stress relief stuff is at the sides of the female part of this joint, which is towards the back of the figure. This pushes the elastic forward, and allows for the tension to pull the body forward into the lurch. This may be alleviated by curving the stress relief so that the elastic can sit more toward the back of the figure and perhaps having a notch that the elastic would seat in on the female part of the assembly joint plug.

[megocrazy]

Great job catching this! I can't believe Mattel would redo the pelvis molds between the GA figure and the 1st wave. Most of the biggest complaints seem to have come with the wave 1 release. Do they possibly have two different factories, or two manufacturing lines in the same factory, working on these that have two completely different molds? This doesn't seem like rocket science to fix.

[Trappy Trek Freak]

I have a superman body that is taken apart I'm going to work on. I have another superman that I left alone, the tubing idea sounds good. I am all for the ball socket idea but if they do refit the bodies I hope they give them swivel arms as well. If they could just use DCUC body type in 8 inch scale with the squeeze head to pop on that would be great.

[rche]

Well, I personally think the mattybody needs to be redesigned from the waist down. That and add some cut joints on the biceps and it would rock.

But, I can live with the Green Arrow body if they were all like that. The one my son has been playing with has held up just fine and is quite playable as a toy.

The pelvis on them really should be a bit larger and give more surface area for the bottom of the torso to swing around in. The little hole on top of the current pelvis is really more suited for a ball to sit in, such as what Mego used on the T2 torsos.

The stringing of the body makes for some other design issues. I favor making it more along the lines of the Captain Action body, which is what the cuts across the top of the legs look like to me. However, if the pelvis was redesigned so that the ball joint of the hip fit into it without turning towards the front, that might work. The cut across the top of the hip ball still needs to be a little longer which would allow for better radial movement at the joint.

[rche]

Truthfully, the principles are sound that Matty has on these. Just really bad aligment, I think. And most of that is due to the pelvis and placement of the band that tensions the torso and pelvis.

The legs on the Mattybody are not tensioned up to the torso; rather they are tied straight across to each other with a slot in the top of the hip which gives (and limits) the radial movement. Mego had a similar design with the female body by tying the legs together and then tying the pelvis up to the neck which actually gave a larger range of movement at the neck joint.

[EMCE Hammer]

I think that their best bet is to make him Max Steele from the waist down. Is there some rule that says a retro figure needs to have elastic or rubber bands?

[rche]

I don't think there are necessarily rules for anything.
Vintage mattel Kens were solid construction with click joints at the knees. Kenner used the same design for the 12" Star Wars line in the 70s.
Big Jims are made in a totally crazy manner. 6mdm has ball joints that the limbs snap onto.

So, I think that is totally in the eye of the beholder.

Since these are recalling the Mego superhero days, I would think it makes sense to have elastics in there. But really, if the costumes are cloth, the heads are squishy, and the scale is right - then they should fit right in. If that takes making a solid ball and socket for the hips and pelvis, then so be it.

I am not a collector of HeMan. Did the modern or vintage lines use elastics in them?
Has Mattel appropriated the HeMan pelvis for the RA line? The pelvis does seem overly small for the figure which is what the MOTU line always looked like to me.

[BlackKnight]

Did the modern or vintage lines use elastics in them?

Vintage uses Rubberbands ...., Modern does not ..., atleast the 2 I opened didn't ... the Body is more so a different design, but the DC Universe Principal is there, with the New MOTU figures. Which imo, is some of the best body designs out there today.


Barbie's 101 pose new figure is quite interesting too ...