Public Domain Superheroes

[The Bloody Head Fairy]

The Thunder agents would be cool but DC owns the rights.Doom Patrol is another.

[David Lee]

Now that Dynamite is publishing them, or at least versions of them, are they really still public domain?

Yea Joe, I think Mr. Ross would frown on producing figures, the question of legality I don't know... but why poke the bear if ya don't need to.

Having said that, Brian (who we are so excited to work with! this guy is awesome!) brings up a good point with Public Domain SH's. Like all great minds they think alike

And I have been scouring for some that I thought might be very cool. I think it could be done in a very cool way, as an homage to the foe runners of comics. I would love to capture the feel of these sometimes very simple, yet visually stunning characters. I tell you it's funny how we fan boys dissect modern super heroes in the realm of hyper realism... these golden age guys would blow some nerd minds! It's like they purposely try to make no sense! I have been hot on this since before Super Powers and was totally rejuvenated by all the fantastic scenes in the WATCHMEN Movie...

We'd really like to do something like this, but like anything "would like to" is often trumped by "how much money do we have?" and even worse "who would buy these?"... A neat idea for sure and one I won't let die without serious consideration.

-Dave

[thunderbolt]

^^^ Maybe this would be a good place to rehash my Heroes of the Serials idea. Pretty sure Commando Cody is either public domain or could be had for a song. Then there is Black Commando, Copperhead, the Green Archer, Chandu the Mystic. As for villains, Dr. Satan, Crimson Ghost and the Purple Monster are all out there. they'd be fun done in black and white, too.

[kingdom warrior]

As much as I love Golden age heroes......The problem lies with recognition. Some of these characters were third and fourth rate knockoffs that were made to cash in on the Superhero comic craze of the forties.

It takes a person like Alex Ross to do those characters to get the general public to even give it a look if that.

Watchmen worked because there is a HUGE fan base already built in who waited for years for the movie and Figures. Plus that series has not been out of print since it's been published.

Many GA heros are all but forgotten even by comic fans.

I'm sure in the collectors market with a limited run some GA figures may do Ok while others may not. It would be risky for a toy maker to make them or think he may get a big return on them.........doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

[David Lee]

I think it all boils down to cost. Most likely these would be a very limited production therefore that dictates these would cost more than a similar figure with a higher production run. Personally I won't spend more than $15 (unless it was something so cool I just couldn't live without it) for a new figure and when you add shipping onto that it just makes it even less palatable to me and you know these will NOT be in stores (let's face it, we're not talking about Superman or Spiderman here) so prepare to pay shipment fees. Now we're over $20 per figure and nothing has even been produced yet. Take into account the Phantom, Khan and others were around $25 or more to start with and now you're talking $30 per figure minimum. Too rich for my blood but I'm sure many others would be happy to spend that much. Of course maybe the costs of rights were figured into the Phantom and Khan which caused them to cost more than a public domain figure? While I think they would be cool and would buy them if affordable, I'm not optimistic they will be affordable enough to "collect 'em all".
Rich

Great point! The limited nature only works if it's something you really want, if you really want it, happy happy joy joyfor you, but most likely meh for others. As a toy manufacturer our need is to get production cheap enough to capture the happy happy joy joy crowd and maybe a few mehs too without sinking the ship. It's the niche market concept, play to those who like your stuff... We are working on that everyday. Like I have always said, nobody likes to play "what they should do next" more than me... I personally appreciate the ideas and the response, it's awesome to see what everyone is in to and see where our interest intersect. Who knows we may be making the "Hooded Horseman" next week...

-Dave

[LadyZod]

Public Domain means that legally the intellectual property (in this case, the Superheroes being published by Dynamite) belong to the public, that is, they belong to me, you and anyone else because they are "public property." That means we're free to do whatever we want with them, as is anyone else.

The toys belong to everyone.

That is why Erik Larsen can go ahead and use Dare-Devil, Samson and whoever he wants in the pages of Savage Dragon.

That's why Alex Ross made some changes to the characters. Those changes are protected by copyright, but not the original source.

In fact, since the original stories themselves are in the public domain, you can go ahead and publish reprints if you want to. I can too. Heck everyone can. There's just no money in it

But in terms of poking the bear. There's no bear to poke.

If a toy company like Cast A Way wanted to produce figures based on the Project Superpowers original golden age source characters, they could legally. But so could EMCE, ZICA, Mattel, Hasbro, CTVT, Jim Bob out of his basement... If everyone can produce their own product, where's the money in it?


However, food for thought....

Cast A Way has Captain Action.
Captain Action needs costumes.
Licensed costumes make for a very expensive set (cost of the character license for the costume, and cost of the Capt Action license.)
Public Domain golden age costumes cuts the cost in half....


Anna

[David Lee]

Public Domain means that legally the intellectual property (in this case, the Superheroes being published by Dynamite) belong to the public, that is, they belong to me, you and anyone else because they are "public property." That means we're free to do whatever we want with them, as is anyone else.

The toys belong to everyone.

That is why Erik Larsen can go ahead and use Dare-Devil, Samson and whoever he wants in the pages of Savage Dragon.

That's why Alex Ross made some changes to the characters. Those changes are protected by copyright, but not the original source.

In fact, since the original stories themselves are in the public domain, you can go ahead and publish reprints if you want to. I can too. Heck everyone can. There's just no money in it

But in terms of poking the bear. There's no bear to poke.

If a toy company like Cast A Way wanted to produce figures based on the Project Superpowers original golden age source characters, they could legally. But so could EMCE, ZICA, Mattel, Hasbro, CTVT, Jim Bob out of his basement... If everyone can produce their own product, where's the money in it?


However, food for thought....

Cast A Way has Captain Action.
Captain Action needs costumes.
Licensed costumes make for a very expensive set (cost of the character license for the costume, and cost of the Capt Action license.)
Public Domain golden age costumes cuts the cost in half....


Anna

Anna! You ma'am are full of wisdom! I like the way you think!

-Dave

[LadyZod]

Anna! You ma'am are full of wisdom! I like the way you think!

-Dave

I'm full of something alright.


Seriously though.... Captain Action in his Dare-Devil outfit! Or even his Black Terror outfit!!

Free publicity with Alex Ross and Erik Larsen doing their thing... the character is in the public eye, and free to use... it's like they're taunting you!

Don't let them taunt you, Dave. It's rude.

Anna

[60'schild]

Surely, David, you didn't already see the words "public domain" and see possible opportunity there!!! SHAME!!

Having said that, when can we expect product? Sometime yesterday would be just fine...

[Neutron X]

I don't think many of these characters are in public domain Marvel,AC Comics, and DC have snagged them. Amazing Man(My all time favorite GA character) was used by DC in All Star Squadron. Lawyers trying to keep their jobs love doing the cease and desist orders for copyright infringement wether they have the rights or not it can cost you big bucks.

Dave Stevens of Rocketeer fame had a heck of time with Marvel over a 1 time throwaway character called Rocketeer. If I remeber correctly from our conversation is was a couple of years of wrangling.

[Captain]

Having been closely involved in the public domain issue with these heroes of late, I can tell you recent events have confirmed they are in fact public domain!...BUT!!! You have to do one of two things. First, you can produce product based on the EXACT actual Golden Age images, but then you cant do anything if somebody copies them....in short, knock offs are fair game.

Second, you can tweak them to make them different from the other incarnations. AC, DC, Marvel, and Dynamite have spent a ton of time (and to some extent money) arguing these points of late. The final decision was, as long as nobody copies whats been produced its fair game. This allows you to produce unique variations on the character that nobody else can copy, and gives you minimal protection. Problem is Doc Mego, Castaway, Zica,CTVT, and whomever else is in the game could (not saying they ever would) all decide to produce these characters at the same time and kill each others market...(kind of like whats going on in the comic biz) !!

For example, if you do Daredevil, you cant call him Daredevil because Marvel copyrighted the name long before this was an issue. You also couldnt use Red Devil like AC or Death Defying Devil like Dynamite. You can call him the amazing Burt, or Devil may care..or something, then its cool. You couldnt give the Black Terror a sword since Dynamite did that, or use the costume variations AC or Dynamite, or DC used...etc, etc. Of course, AC, Dynamite, or whomever can license out the rights to produce figures based on their interpretations of the character, but that still wouldnt protect you from somebody else producing the same character, less the Dynamite additions.

[60'schild]

Even with all of those caveats it sounds like there is still room to maneuver .... definite possibilities out there!

[AAAAA]

The other solution is Create your own charaters,When Paul Clack got the S&D letters from marvel and DC, I sent him some prototypes ,mockups and Art work,and told him do you own heros. I even sent him one of the Skeletons Dress in Aussie Marine , and told him you can do Zombies.
And He seek Out" Night of the living dead" Which he found out was Public Domain.
The Key is KEEP cost Down , some Have stated public won't pay for unknown Hero ,that Known one, I Beg to differ. when G.I.Joe took off Parents were Buying the 1.29 knock off figure and By passing the 3.49 joes.
If you offer a cheaper item of the same quality You will out sell the Pirmary item.

[thunderbolt]

^^^ Like kids are going to be happy with a Black Terror over Batman.

[jasonmego1277]

This definitely sounds interesting. I am curious if anything comes of these.