Should FTC have accepted Mego Marvel license even under the $80 sets restrictions?

[madmarva]

Didn't Disney try to buy Hasbro so it would not have to license Marvel and Star Wars b ut have complete control (and own GI Joe and Transformers as well!) I wish deal had gone through then we see a Mego Marvel Universe!

I know Disney has gone after Time/Warner too and I'd like to see a merger of DC and Marvel Universes!

Competition is good. A merger of the two companies would not be good for consumers or creators. The fringe titles/characters from both companies would be dumped. The prices of comics would likely go up. Staff and freelancers from both companies would lose jobs. The material created might become even more mediocre. Without competition, the merged company could hire inferior talent to work on books, pay them less and force higher-paid talent to work on creator-owned products or accept lower wages or work in another industry. Instead of the new Marvel/DC trying to chip away at a large competitor's marketshare, which would make both companies strive for excellence, it would attempt to further marginalized the independent companies. The loss of either major player wouldn't be good for anyone other than upper management.

[hedrap]

If you're selling licensed goods, the nostalgia market can be a very lucrative place if you have the operating revenue to tap into it. Marty Abrams didn't have to fight to get those licensed deals in the 70's because no one was knocking down the doors of DC or Marvel like they do today with billion dollar movie franchises and decades of merchandising history behind them.

OK. So you acknowledge who they're targeting and I agree with that. Let's do away with the notion FTC is manufacturing toys for kids as they've never shown a concern for playability.

As far as offering similar characters as a means to encourage additional sales, I could not disagree with you more. Let's look at Batman alone - RC Batman, Molded head Batman, Fist-fighting Batman, Secret identity Batman, 3 3/4 inch Batman, !2 inch Batman, and on from there. Plenty of heroes took that same route. The fact that FTC has expanded upon it because there's a bigger market that supports it, is not exactly something I would call unique.

You're either retconning Mego or conflating all of FTC's releases as being one. I'm very specific as to what I'm against, and it's exactly what Oven Mitt asked; replica re-releases. 18", Superfriends, '66, etc...fine by me. They're new to the market.

As you said earlier, molded head replaced RC due to Theft/Loss or Quality Control. We know T2 replaced T1 because of QC. We also know 3 3/4 and 12" were responses to the changing market. A number of costume changes were made due to QC. Secret Identities though are new figures, as it requires new head sculpts and clothing, and were limited specialties (Edit: SI heads already existed). With Fist-Fighters you could make the case as an attempt to double-dip, but even that's a stretch. We don't know if it was meant to replace the T2 as normal production.

So what FTC variant line has been released due to QC, manufacturing or market changes?

I agree with the rest you wrote, unless you think MEGO and FTC were/are marketing to the same audience. MEGO was designed to be mass merchandise and FTC is practicing what's called "drill-down", where you target a niche and go after every dollar in that select group. The two models are diametrically opposed.

[hedrap]

Hedrap, there are so many things in your post that don't even begin to make sense I don't know where to start.

Your conspiracy theories about FTC's business motives are ludicrous. Double dipping means things aren't going well?
Umm...yeah, cause it's totally logical to keep making MORE of figures that aren't selling right?

As far as your criticism about FTC making alterations to their WGSH...umm, you do realize they literally just did that very thing with the six JLA figures released this week. So much for that argument.

You don't know where to start, because you haven't been able to answer anything that wasn't a straw man you came up with.

After a solid year of sales, FTC now knows the market share. I never said "sales are bad". I said they're not moving like they thought. When you lease a major license, it's because you expect it brings a large buyers base. If you don't get the base expansion, whaat do you do? The practice is to hardfocus on the buying group and drill down. FTC's competition has been Ebay as DST doesn't release enough Marvel and Neca is its own thing.

As for the JLA figures...when did they get released? This week. Then what was the point of the previous two years of replica product?

[Vinny0026]

As always - I'm late to the party

If I may shed some light - or a little of what I know
1) Disney owns Marvel and Hasbro - they did not want to compete with anything they were making. Hence the large 80.00 or more price tag. that they wanted to see the figures retail at.

2) Pretty sure a few people were in talks to try and get the Marvel rights - just because CTV/figures inc did not get them - does not mean they did not try. They might have just been out bid.

When FTC was in the hunt for the rights - the idea that they had proposed was to sell figures in waves for 100.00.
So you would get a marvel wave of 4 figures - each on their own card but you would have had to buy the full set of 4 for 100.00.
So the price would have come out to be 25.00 per figure but again you had to buy a wave of 4 figure.

The other idea i 'm pretty sure they were kicking around was to put 4 figures on 1 card (like the teen titans).

Now I have no idea why they did or did not get the rights. I'm sure if they were able to get the rights down the road they would - especially since the DC line has been selling so well for them.

Now as far as remakes/ originals go. I think the remakes hurt the value of loose non mint figures for sure. You used to get like 75 bucks for a good loose batman with repro parts
Now you cant get 75 for a loose one with mostly original parts. The flip side is: all original and minty type figures have held their value and have gone up - proving that people who must have mint/ all original still will pay for them. Just check out the ebay sales. And MOC MIB figures have leveled off a bit - but for items c8 or metter moc / mib the value has stayed the same or has gone up. Keep in mind that some of the price drops are people don't want to pay 10 k for 1 figure - so thats why no one is jumping at those figures. but when you see an empty green cared palitoy captain america card go for almost 3 k - shows you the big boys are still willing to deal for rare items.

Another flip side is loose figures not made by ctv/emce have shot up. Thor, Ironman, Green goblins, lizards, falcons and the fantastic four in loose shape and not mint condition have shot up. a very good falcon used to run about 60 bucks - now you cant get a bater for that price. Zombie head fan four used to be cheap - they also have gone up. The green goblins were a 60 figure with repro parts - same figure is going for 125 and up most days. So as everything in life there are pros and cons. Most of this is IMO only but there is no doubt the remakes have brought many new people into the hobby buying or selling original figures. Also the remakes brought us new figures never made before and new parts - So i'm all for them even though it hurt the loose value a bit.

[MIB41]

OK. So you acknowledge who they're targeting and I agree with that. Let's do away with the notion FTC is manufacturing toys for kids as they've never shown a concern for playability..

All companies have targeted consumer bases. Name one company that has the same business model in the toy industry today that is unchanged since 1973. The marketplace has evolved my friend. And I can't do away with there being just one market. They absolutely promote playability to kids. As I stated, I buy some for my grandson, which have endured far worse "yoga stretches" than what I ever put mine through. Everything is intact. Most companies have toy lines and collector lines. In the case of FTC, their product can cater to both bases whereas Mego did not have that collector market.

Are they trying to maximize value to the license by stretching out variants and limited editions? Absolutely. But once again, I don't see the crime. We're grown ups here. No one is lost on the differences. And if there are people who desire to literally "collect them all" then God love them for surviving that endurance test. But that's on them. FTC is offering different price points and different package deals on so many things, it's hard to count them all. But that's a way to repurpose product and move your inventory. They have great ideas.

You're either retconning Mego or conflating all of FTC's releases as being one. I'm very specific as to what I'm against, and it's exactly what Oven Mitt asked; replica re-releases. 18", Superfriends, '66, etc...fine by me. They're new to the market.

As you said earlier, molded head replaced RC due to Theft/Loss or Quality Control. We know T2 replaced T1 because of QC. We also know 3 3/4 and 12" were responses to the changing market. A number of costume changes were made due to QC. Secret Identities though are new figures, as it requires new head sculpts and clothing, and were limited specialties (Edit: SI heads already existed). With Fist-Fighters you could make the case as an attempt to double-dip, but even that's a stretch. We don't know if it was meant to replace the T2 as normal production.

So what FTC variant line has been released due to QC, manufacturing or market changes?

I agree with the rest you wrote, unless you think MEGO and FTC were/are marketing to the same audience. MEGO was designed to be mass merchandise and FTC is practicing what's called "drill-down", where you target a niche and go after every dollar in that select group. The two models are diametrically opposed.

As stated, Mego existed in a totally different market than FTC. These were young adults taking relatively new licensing concepts and creating product around them to a young base of kids for profitability. You didn't have 40 and 50 year olds banging on their door for a action figure like you do today. And by it's very design of one body created to host various head sculpts and body suits, they could change out characters or create variations with a minimal of retooling. What are the secret identity figures? All existing figures repackaged. When did Mego Don become Superman? What about the various uses of the Mego Bruce Wayne head to be other characters? Same head, just different names. The Mego Shazam head became Peter Parker. When did the Lizard make a guest appearance on Star Trek? Mego by it's very practice of reusing heads inadvertently created the custom market overnight. How many variations of the 12 inch Spiderman exist? How about Batman? Robin? Superman? Allot of that is repurposing the same product.

Now fast forward to the present day companies making Mego style figures. Most of these entrepreneurs were the very children who played with this product. They were the original consumers of these goods. They are taking those same ideas and branching out to solicit other forms of product. Look at the Emce sets Paul created. That is essentially Mego meets Captain Action packaging and accessories. FTC has secret identity figures, fist fighters, and special edition figures to meet specific looks of shows from the 60's and 70's that we didn't get as kids. A new market grew out from that era of kids because Mego likely didn't think there was a need. Neca is taking the Mego idea and combining it with the Mcfarlane concept which is producing some pretty cool characters. So what you have is this explosion of ideas from kids who grew up with Megos. I sure customized my figures to death. So I don't think anyone is suggesting FTC is a company that is following a 40 year old business model so much as taking that original product and finding new ways to expound upon the same ideas Mego certainly examined.

[Vinny0026]

oh as for quality - I think both lines had and have some issues - but both lines seem to be working towards making them better.

I have seen pros and cons in every line trying to look like mego - since mego (famous covers, DC retros etc..)
each line has brought something new to the hobby for better or worse. but each of those lines has also brought a positive. Like parts used from famous covers to make customs - and i liked the dc retro suits. so to each their own as to if they want to buy any of the other remake lines. but for the hobby I think they all have been great.

[ovenmitt]

Vinny0026,

Thanks! I would buy a set of 4 FTC Marvel Megos for $100 ($25 each) even if I had to buy entire set which is what I do with FTC DC Mego 4 figures sets! That's better deal than current $80 DST/EMCE Marvel sets 1 repro figure 2 extra costumes Captain Action-like!

Disney owns Hasbro? I thought Disney extended Hasbro's Marvel and Star Wars licenses to 2020? UGH!

[Vinny0026]

Vinny0026,

Thanks! I would buy a set of 4 FTC Marvel Megos for $100 ($25 each) even if I had to buy entire set which is what I do with FTC DC Mego 4 figures sets! That's better deal than current $80 DST/EMCE Marvel sets 1 repro figure 2 extra costumes Captain Action-like!

Disney owns Hasbro? I thought Disney extended Hasbro's Marvel and Star Wars licenses to 2020? UGH!

I do not believe they own them yet - But it may have been a factor in the price points looking a head down the road.
But the price points would have been perfect for CTV to sell these at 80 and up. They would have sold 4 figure sets.

http://screenrant.com/disney-hasbro-acquisition/

http://www.movies.com/movie-news/disney-hasbro/10194

[huedell]

As stated, Mego existed in a totally different market than FTC. These were young adults taking relatively new licensing concepts and creating product around them to a young base of kids for profitability. You didn't have 40 and 50 year olds banging on their door for a action figure like you do today.

Something to lighten the thread

[ovenmitt]

RATS! I guess Hasbro believes 4 figures $100 sets were in competition with Hasbro's $20 Marvel Legends which you have to buy entire wave for build-a-figure!

$20 for a 6" all plastic figure stinks but I will pay $25 for a cloth-costumed 8" Mego!

Mego Marvels are still going to waste. If $80 sets are cancelled maybe Disney will reconsider FTC offer!

[huedell]

RATS! I guess Hasbro believes 4 figures $100 sets were in competition with Hasbro's $20 Marvel Legends...!

Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if Hasbro's thinking was close to that mindset.

Mego Marvels are still going to waste. If $80 sets are cancelled maybe Disney will reconsider FTC offer!

I'm no expert, but, maybe FTCs track record (hopefully good in the books as it appears it very well might be on the surface) could be a tipping point if/when it's an appropriate moment?

I'd hate seeing DST/EMCE's line fail, and I do have issues with FTC, but bottom line is: Bottom line is the bottom line. Max money gots ta be MADE.

[enyawd72]

RATS! I guess Hasbro believes 4 figures $100 sets were in competition with Hasbro's $20 Marvel Legends

If that's the case I can't imagine why...FTC figures are a specialty item and not competition to anything you find at regular retail such as Wal-Mart, etc.

[ovenmitt]

Yeah, Hasbro is mass-market and FTC specialty/online!

I don't see where $80 sets are ok 1 figure 3 costumes but not selling 4 figures TOGETHER for $100!

[hedrap]

All companies have targeted consumer bases. Name one company that has the same business model in the toy industry today that is unchanged since 1973. The marketplace has evolved my friend. And I can't do away with there being just one market. They absolutely promote playability to kids. As I stated, I buy some for my grandson, which have endured far worse "yoga stretches" than what I ever put mine through. Everything is intact. Most companies have toy lines and collector lines. In the case of FTC, their product can cater to both bases whereas Mego did not have that collector market.

You know I respect your opinion, but there too many contradictions. Where do you see a hint of evolution? This is niche, boutique stuff. Market evolution would mean broadening the appeal. That is not what's occurred. There are more kids from the 90's and 2k who never owned action figures than have bought them.

FTC does not promote playability, literally or in design. I get your anecdote, but it doesn't make it a universal truth. If playability was a factor, then why did they hold to designs from the 70s? Oven Mitts are logical play choice in 2015? Banded bodies - from FTC no less? Like they didn't already have a decade of crap results? Sticker emblems? Your first post was to highlight how Megos from the 70's had their own QC issues. If that's true, then why is FTC so beholden to a flawed design? CAW, ZICA and EMCE, have constantly worked to evolve the format.

Are they trying to maximize value to the license by stretching out variants and limited editions? Absolutely. But once again, I don't see the crime. We're grown ups here. No one is lost on the differences. And if there are people who desire to literally "collect them all" then God love them for surviving that endurance test. But that's on them. FTC is offering different price points and different package deals on so many things, it's hard to count them all. But that's a way to repurpose product and move your inventory. They have great ideas.

Wait - did you miss the posts about grown men playing with toys? What you're stating is a supportive way of what I call double-tip and drill down. It's the same thing, but it doesn't expand the market if its variants and limited galore. How is this not the same as the 90's comic industry? Variants and limited created speculators and once they realized multiple printings only meant devaluation, they crashed the entire market and imploded the industry. By replicating original Mego, FTC is doing the same thing. And while some may applaud that as way to get some neurotic revenge on Ebay sellers, the ripple effect goes beyond that. If they made replicas the variants/limited/exclusives, it would have been a smart approach.

As stated, Mego existed in a totally different market than FTC. These were young adults taking relatively new licensing concepts and creating product around them to a young base of kids for profitability. You didn't have 40 and 50 year olds banging on their door for a action figure like you do today. And by it's very design of one body created to host various head sculpts and body suits, they could change out characters or create variations with a minimal of retooling. What are the secret identity figures? All existing figures repackaged. When did Mego Don become Superman? What about the various uses of the Mego Bruce Wayne head to be other characters? Same head, just different names. The Mego Shazam head became Peter Parker. When did the Lizard make a guest appearance on Star Trek? Mego by it's very practice of reusing heads inadvertently created the custom market overnight. How many variations of the 12 inch Spiderman exist? How about Batman? Robin? Superman? Allot of that is repurposing the same product.

It's not the same. The Gorn was not released as part of the WGSH line on a Lizard card. "Different Names" means different products. You're using past production methods to justify modern marketing. SI figures were not the same as Don or Gorn. SI were licensed exclusives, and an offshoot of the WGSH line. Don and Gorn were re-purposed parts for new products. When FTC releases a Flash using a retooled Batman head, you'll be correct. But taking the same Batman and slapping him in a two-pack is not anything like Gorn.

Now fast forward to the present day companies making Mego style figures. Most of these entrepreneurs were the very children who played with this product. They were the original consumers of these goods. They are taking those same ideas and branching out to solicit other forms of product. Look at the Emce sets Paul created. That is essentially Mego meets Captain Action packaging and accessories. FTC has secret identity figures, fist fighters, and special edition figures to meet specific looks of shows from the 60's and 70's that we didn't get as kids. A new market grew out from that era of kids because Mego likely didn't think there was a need. Neca is taking the Mego idea and combining it with the Mcfarlane concept which is producing some pretty cool characters. So what you have is this explosion of ideas from kids who grew up with Megos. I sure customized my figures to death. So I don't think anyone is suggesting FTC is a company that is following a 40 year old business model so much as taking that original product and finding new ways to expound upon the same ideas Mego certainly examined.

Most is accurate as long as we're in agreement kids are not the demo, which you've implied several times. And that's the crux of the problem for EMCE Marvel sets; Hasbro did not want them targeting the same market. I do totally disagree when retconning MEGO practices to justify FTC. MEGO re-purposed seven heads for new figures across its entire output. That's not the same idea as selling the same figure but with a different cardback. If MEGO took the same approach, the Gorn would have stayed green. FTC's model follows Secret Identities and Fist-Fighters.

[Vinny0026]

Disney wants to own everything

They will even want to buy Toys R us (which they have been rumored to) once TRU goes completely bankrupt so they then can really corner the toy market.

I really do not see Disney buying a store chain - they have been there done that.
I was a Manager for Toys r us back in the day - Than A manager for the Disney Store.

Disney stores were really just another way to advertise for the parks.
A year after I left the Disney Store - they were sold to the childrens place - because Disney din not want to be in retail anymore at the time.

Childrens place ran the stores so bad that Disney was basically forced to take the stores back over.

So in Short - if they did not want to run a 150 stores that had sales of 1-3 million bucks profit each - now way they want the headache of running the Toys R us Chain (IMO)
They make more than enough money leasing the rights and getting paid to do nothing. Than to try and own the world. Disney Merchandise is in everystore I doubt they want Toys R US to fail so they can open up a chain of Toy Store - It will never happen.