FTC Limited Edition DC 2-Packs

[enyawd72]

^Vinny, do you really think characters like Captain Cold, Black Adam, Cheetah, Darkseid, and the Lanterns sold poorly because no one wanted those characters, or do you think Mattel's earlier distribution and QC problems had caused people to lose interest by the time those you mentioned came out? Personally, that's the reason I didn't buy them. I loved Captain Cold...I think he was the best figure in the line, but I stopped collecting them by the time he came out.

I hope it's the latter because it would be a shame not to have those characters included in the new line.

[Vinny0026]

^Vinny, do you really think characters like Captain Cold, Black Adam, Cheetah, Darkseid, and the Lanterns sold poorly because no one wanted those characters, or do you think Mattel's earlier distribution and QC problems had caused people to lose interest by the time those you mentioned came out? Personally, that's the reason I didn't buy them. I loved Captain Cold...I think he was the best figure in the line, but I stopped collecting them by the time he came out.

I hope it's the latter because it would be a shame not to have those characters included in the new line.

IMO both reasons. The average age customer at toys r us -4/5 years old. That is the main target for kids anyway. By 6/7 these kids are getting video games and phones. At least that was the idea when I was a manager there.

So those kids had no clue who Captain cold was.
I grabbed him and cheetah - I like the female retro bodies a lot. I use them for my customs.

But don't you think they should have done say Robin first? Over all I had no real issues with the retros. I just switched the bodies for mego bodies. I really liked the suits on them. But over all I think no one know who the characters were. and the website doing all lantern exclusives did not help as well. and to think the lanterns they picked guy gardner over kilowag? not sure that was a good choice.

but for toys r us - it was the choice of figures for sure (IMO)
The same went for Darkseid, and Black adam - unless its one of our kids - most did not know who they were.

even at 5 below and the discount stores no one bought these figures for anything other than us stealing the parts for customs.

I can't express it enough that we are like less than 10% of a toy market.
we are all on or will be the wrong side of 40. Yes we love these items - but for kids today they could care less.

To bring up one last point
Think back to the Cartoon network shows: Young justice, Green lantern animated and also batman brave and the bold.

I liked all 3 shows. - They cancelled those shows because the toy lines tanked (or part of the reason was cause the toy lines tanked)
and those were shows that some kids were watching. SO if those figures were peg warmers for a show on tv that the kids could watch. What did you think would happen to figures they had no clue who they were or no where to see them.

A lot of companies tried to reinvent mego - they all failed
the smartest thing CTV did was they left it alone. why reinvent the wheel?

In short IMO that is the main reason Mattel failed. The idea is to get other people to buy these figures other than 40 year olds trying to relive our childhoods.

[enyawd72]

^I think maybe part of the problem too is what companies and consumers alike consider a success or failure these days.

Action figure lines in the past were a LOT smaller. Mattel's Flash Gordon had only 8 figures. Remco's Mini Monsters had 6. Super Powers 34. Ever since Star Wars, G.I. Joe and Masters of the Universe, it seems if a line doesn't produce dozens of figures and last for years it's considered a failure. DCUC made over 300 figures and I know some collectors that STILL weren't happy.

[Vinny0026]

I've only got the Riddler because I needed him. The originals are the starting point to expand on or why buy new figures if you don't have the Core. I think the 2 packs are neat. My only issue is why 5 batman 2 packs. I will open mine so no need for great packaging, they look glued on. I would have prefered say Batman/Bruce.....Robin/Riddler....Joker/pengy.....Catwoman/Batgirl......etc. If I did collect them carded I wouldn't want 5 carded Batmans in my collection. My 2 cents. Post your best 2 pack suggestions. Vinny is the expert...whatcha think Vincenzo?

Lee -They did make the batman/wayne and joker /penguin 2 pack. Batgirl is not out yet so that's why no batgirl/catwoman
Now the reason you see 5 batman 2 packs is because they only released batman figures thus far.

No doubt you will see these again down the line. I won't ruin the surprise for them on what combos they have art for already and plans for.
but the few I've seen you will be impressed. You should see the art they did not use for this batch. I hope they go back and use it down the road because it was really awesome.

I mean when it comes to 2 packs the ideas are endless
bruce/dick 2 pack?

robin/riddler is always a fav of mine.
batman/batgirl once she is released. robin batgirl

how about a batman/robin/batgirl 3 pack?
I can sit here for hours on the 2 packs. They are my fav customs to make right now.

I hope to share my latest Spidy by next week. also working on a Captain America/falcon 2.0 which I think most will enjoy.

[nobody]

I actually mean Batman is in 5 of the 6 two packs.

[Vinny0026]

^I think maybe part of the problem too is what companies and consumers alike consider a success or failure these days.

Action figure lines in the past were a LOT smaller. Mattel's Flash Gordon had only 8 figures. Remco's Mini Monsters had 6. Super Powers 34. Ever since Star Wars, G.I. Joe and Masters of the Universe, it seems if a line doesn't produce dozens of figures and last for years it's considered a failure. DCUC made over 300 figures and I know some collectors that STILL weren't happy.

yes - cause you can never make everyone happy
I think some lines would do right in the right settings.

Take the justice league unlimited line. I personally loved it. Until they started making less numbers and only target exclusives.
You would never find a figure on the peg. They should of offered them on the website like they did with motu. But they did not.

I can't tell you how happy I was when they killed the line. Only cause I got tired paying high e bay prices trying to find figures that never hit the pegs.

also keep in mind it is all about $$$
Mattel did not see a good return so they shut the line. If CTV does not see a good return they will do the same. People are not in business to keep us happy

They are here to make money. If these figures sit around and do not move that is lost money. The goal is to sell out of everything you make.
the longer something sits the more it costs you.

I really do think this re-issue will be here for a while - I see a 5-10 year window (IMO) I hope it is longer but that's what I see
once everyone starts hitting 50/55 funds will be harder to spend on toys when your kids need cards, gas money and college.

But I don't see CTV giving up on these any time soon or any of us. So if it gets cut before that time period I will be pretty shocked.

[Vinny0026]

I actually mean Batman is in 5 of the 6 two packs.

ohhh -
IMO - right now its just lack of released figures. once more figures are released no doubt you will see more 2 packs.
what else could they really do now? robin/catwoman? not sure how that would sell

other than robin/riddler or a dick /robin I'm not sure what they missed on with the first 8 figures that are released thus far

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

I can quibble a bit with the character selection in the 2nd WGSH wave, but the first one was perfect. Batman and Robin will be two of the best sellers across the board, and Joker and Riddler will be two of the best selling villains.

The 2nd wave character selection was a bit curious to me. I understand the mentality behind releasing Bruce and Dick as figures for the first time, but that really didn't seem to 'wow' a lot of the collectors here, and I wasn't amazed by it either. Penguin and Catwoman were figures I'd want to get, but probably not in a 2nd wave.

Still, all this is a moot point, the 3rd Batman wave will be strong, and the 4th should do amazingly well unless they just totally screw up the Ras and Scarecrow sculpts.

But as I've said all along, this line won't truly bring everyone on board that it can, until it gets into the Superman and Superfriends characters. If the waves can more or less hold a pattern of giving us 3 replicas and 1 new figure each, I think (most) everyone will be happy.

[Vinny0026]

I can quibble a bit with the character selection in the 2nd WGSH wave, but the first one was perfect. Batman and Robin will be two of the best sellers across the board, and Joker and Riddler will be two of the best selling villains.

The 2nd wave character selection was a bit curious to me. I understand the mentality behind releasing Bruce and Dick as figures for the first time, but that really didn't seem to 'wow' a lot of the collectors here, and I wasn't amazed by it either. Penguin and Catwoman were figures I'd want to get, but probably not in a 2nd wave.

Still, all this is a moot point, the 3rd Batman wave will be strong, and the 4th should do amazingly well unless they just totally screw up the Ras and Scarecrow sculpts.

But as I've said all along, this line won't truly bring everyone on board that it can, until it gets into the Superman and Superfriends characters. If the waves can more or less hold a pattern of giving us 3 replicas and 1 new figure each, I think (most) everyone will be happy.

Well again I wont speak for them - but if superman is what your after you will be happy soon.

I'm pretty sure I said enough already and its not my place. But everything your looking for is already on the drawing boards for them.
it just a matter of production. they have a ton of stuff in various stages. But pretty much everything your looking for they have already dropped hints they are working on it. Just give it time to come to life.

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

Well again I wont speak for them - but if superman is what your after you will be happy soon.

I'm pretty sure I said enough already and its not my place. But everything your looking for is already on the drawing boards for them.
it just a matter of production. they have a ton of stuff in various stages. But pretty much everything your looking for they have already dropped hints they are working on it. Just give it time to come to life.

You're right, I've heard reports that all the figures I want personally are on the way. My only quibble (and it's a small one) is the character selection in the 2nd wave. But even 3 months from now none of that will matter.

Up until about 10 years ago I had a pretty big collection of loose Megos. A couple dozen, all complete and original, cherry-picked and in great shape, including several of the harder figures to get complete, such as Green Arrow and Thor. Then, unfortunately, I had to get rid of them, and in the 10 years since and with the prices going up every year, I had just resigned myself to the fact that I'd never get all those figures back that I once had.

FTC is now giving me that chance. Which is why I want to see this line succeed, and I think it will. Appreciate your updates and insights BTW.

[dr_cyclops]

Vinny0026 should get royalties. Same for The Toyroom

And Lonnie Fisher!
After all, we are talking about copyrighting ideas here, right?

[huedell]

you do get that even with the repro figures FTC is starting from scratch with molds, patterns etc? The only done easy is the prototyping, just buy a vintage Batman and blammo instant prototype.

Which is a big step. They already have their body (T2, fat body, female body).

Again, I seriously don't think that two waves of 4 figures each in less than a year is slow, just not good enough for Hue. As far as the Repros not appealing to you, wahhh. EMCE did straight repros of Star Trek for the first few waves of its line and they did just fine, even leading to a Gorn, Sulu, Chekov, Pike, Salt Vampire and Khaaaan!!

How long did it take to get to unique Trek figures? Whatever the case, good for EMCE.
The part I'd like to point out is that the company you're holding up as an example wasn't FTC... I followed the trajectory of the EMCE Trek 8-inchers and, without going back and researching/recalling the exact release stats (time intervals and new character approach) my feelings (the impression I got) was that EMCE always seemed to say what they'd do and do what they said. CTV? Not so much.
The FTC repros appeal to me just fine. But not fine enough to buy til they exceed the butler in new characters.

You even mention Mattel failing at this, didn't know 21 figures in a limited appeal line is a failure.

I've stated in past threads that I thought Mattel should have found a way to continue on, and because they didn't, I thought they failed. Doc Mego explained to me (explained to us) that my POV on Mattel's failure wasn't very understanding of what actually happened (a change in management at Mattel, apparently, is what ultimately killed the RA line there).
In this thread I complimented Mattel... for doing what think FTC should have done: integrated new non-Mego characters early on (more than one butler, of course). And, of course, in a way, they were ALL "non-Megos" because of their newer take on the bodies, sculpts...but, those things were fine enough...if only for WGSH customs...but let's stay on track here.

The only thing I agree with you on is the "buy these or you won't get those" mentality.

And I don't think that that POV is that unfair. I'm a "group" collector most of the time. At the risk of redundancy: Mattel's RA integrated the newer characters early on. Every wave was exciting for both guys like us AND the people looking to stock up on characters Mego already made.

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

BTW according to this page, Mattel released 8 figures (9 if you could GA) in the first year - http://www.megomuseum.com/remego/emcewgsh.shtml

And another 8 in the second year. FTC looks to match or beat that schedule.

In the first year they gave us 8 figures, and 2 of which (Bruce and Dick) are technically 'new' figures.

In the second year, now till next April, we will likely get at least 3 more waves, possibly as many as 5. Where Mattel gave us only 8 figures in the second year.

Sorry but it looks like FTC's line and release schedule is going to leave Mattel's in the dust.

[huedell]

Look I do not want to seem like I'm picking on you and do not want to come off that way. But a few questions here:

If you were starting a new line of figures today - do you think you would start with what you think would sell? or what you know would sell?
These first waves were super important - to get people on board. Had these first few waves tanked out of the gate there would go the whole line.

^^^^I too want to come off like I'm not being aggressive, and with that in mind, please take with a grain of salt that I think this mindset above is a very obvious mindset.

Do you think never produced figures would have sold more? Like Alfred, deadshot, lois, and say I don't know bizarro? Than what they made now?
I mean look at Mattel - they tried it your way - and by wave 3 they were done. No one wanted Darkseid, Blackadam, No one wanted all the lanterns or Captain cold or cheetah - all were peg warmers and all caused the line to tank. So history shows you can't go with non main stream figures. Why would they repeat Mattels Mistakes?

According to what Doc has posted here, you're barking up the wrong tree w/your POV on Mattel's mistake.

But you realize these other lines are funding your WGSH right?
Kiss is a huge money maker for them. I bet at least 50% of the people buying kiss do not buy any of the WGSH. If it was not for that line - odds are they would not have gone after this line.

KISS is just one line. They have a bunch of other stop/start lines and (as you well know) they've started even more lines that will likely be stunted in character growth.
The only reason I've brought up KISS in a negative light in this thread is that that line incorporates quite a bit of re-use and not a lot of thought goes into that line overasll---and that's great... in fact, it's the GREATEST thing FTC has done as far as I can tell. The problem here doesn't lie in the KISS "success" it revolves around the idea that that endless Demon, Starchild etc. variations in their enduring line is notably different than a line that should include a more varied design range of Superman, Wonder Woman, Hawkman, Starfire and Sivana (etc etc etc).

You keep talking about their history
They have evolved so much since the problems they had using factories in India.
They have improved every step of the way - every item the release the quality has gotten better. They have not tried to ignore that happened. They took responsibility and moved past it. They have grown in every way.
They lost a major income when they lost rights to make some WWE stuff. That would have killed most companies.
They re-invented their website and infused us with tons of new gloves, Female heads, Male heads belts weapons and parts. Stuff you may not use but a ton of us do.

Sounds good to me. Took a while to get there though. So please excuse my skepticism.

Again I do not work for them, I do not want to come across as I'm defending them. But you have to be more open minded.
These guys have grown and continue to do so - give them credit when its due.

Stop bashing them or complaining just because you do not see the stuff you want (Yet)

I'm "bashing them" because of what I see to be as poor release choices... that m,ight be unfair, but it's not because "I do not see the stuff I want"--- not exactly, anyway.

I will leave you with one last question:
If you had your choice right now of wave 6/7 (because wave 4 and 5 are already set and maybe even wave 6)

Who would you want in there to make you personally happy?

I don't know who is in wave 4 or wave 5... but I DO know that Supes and GA are to come sooner than later.

I'm under the impression that FTC was stuck with using only Batman characters out of the gate.

Here's what I would have done for the first twelve waves, taking the Batman thing into consideration for the first three waves:

WAVE 01: Batman, Robin, Joker, Penguin
WAVE 02: Riddler, "Pirate" Catwoman, Commissioner James Gordon, Scarecrow
WAVE 03: RC Batman, RM Robin, Mr. Freeze, Ra's Al Ghul
WAVE 04: Superman, Bizarro, Batgirl, Two Face
WAVE 05: Supergirl, Jimmy Olsen, Lex Luthor, Brainiac,
WAVE 06: AE Bruce Wayne, AE Dick Grayson, "Purple Dress" Catwoman, Alfred Pennyworth
WAVE 07: Wonder Woman, Flash, Cheetah, Captain Cold
WAVE 08: Green Arrow, SHAZAM!, Plastic Man, The Atom
WAVE 09: Aquaman, Black Manta, AE Clark Kent, AE Barbara Gordon (edited)
WAVE 10: Green Lantern, Sinestro, Lois Lane, Mr. Myxlpltlk
WAVE 11: Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Black Canary, Mera (edited)
WAVE 12: Black Lightning, Metamorpho, Dr. Sivana, Mirror Master (edited)
WAVE 13: Martian Manhunter, Red Tornado, Elongated Man, Zatanna (added)
WAVE 14: Trickster, Pied Piper, Reverse Flash, Captain Boomerang (added)

And, if THAT was the promised wave character proposal---all I'd have had to have heard was the first few waves, and my excitement for the line would've been so great that I could've stood a "three wave per year" mindset... even in spite of my skepticism about FTC.

Now, you could make the argument that my proposal would have lost them money... but I don't see how.

BTW according to this page, Mattel released 8 figures (9 if you could GA) in the first year - http://www.megomuseum.com/remego/emcewgsh.shtml
And another 8 in the second year. FTC looks to match or beat that schedule.
In the first year they gave us 8 figures, and 2 of which (Bruce and Dick) are technically 'new' figures.
In the second year, now till next April, we will likely get at least 3 more waves, possibly as many as 5. Where Mattel gave us only 8 figures in the second year.

See above for why these stats don't win me over.(*"...all I'd have had to have heard was the first few waves..." [of my own proposed line-up])

Sorry but it looks like FTC's line and release schedule is going to leave Mattel's in the dust.

Sorry, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[ThePlayerOnTheOtherSide]

Do you think never produced figures would have sold more? Like Alfred, deadshot, lois, and say I don't know bizarro? Than what they made now?
I mean look at Mattel - they tried it your way - and by wave 3 they were done. No one wanted Darkseid, Blackadam, No one wanted all the lanterns or Captain cold or cheetah - all were peg warmers and all caused the line to tank. So history shows you can't go with non main stream figures. Why would they repeat Mattels Mistakes?

Exactly! FTC has to release figures that will SELL to the broader market, not the 5 obscure figures that some MM members want cause no other line has made them yet.

People want Batman characters and Superman characters. That's 90% of the market right there. That's why the majority of the 'new' figures you see over the next year or two will likely be Batman or Superman characters. Because they are the more easily recognizable and the more bankable. Even a character like Hawkman that almost everyone here wants need to be in a wave with other more 'mainstream' characters in order to sell.

The diehards are the ones that want the Legionaires and the obscure villains that the casual collector has never heard of. That's not what you start a line with, that's what you END it with.