Batman Retro Series 1 production samples from Figures Toy

[Brown Bear]

They're due mid-November and should be shipping right away.

[Uni]

So...

Is FTC going to have these ready to ship this year? Isn't someone from FTC on this forum?

[MIB41]

. It wasn't a reboot though because he could run into the older Riders. Imagine if they did that with Batman.

My God. That would be funny if they could do that with the movie incarnations. I could see the Clooney Batman trying to break up a disagreement between the Keaton Batman and the Nolan version. Oh, that would be rich!

[palitoy]

I would add the "new 52" has always registered (to me) as a merchandising move more than a comic revamp.

It sure looks like it. Something the Japanese do a lot, each year you would get a new Kamen Rider, a different guy with a new bike and outfit, new baddies to fight. It wasn't a reboot though because he could run into the older Riders. Imagine if they did that with Batman.

[hedrap]

I've also heard that the merchandising royalties were keeping DC afloat at one point.

At one point? DC hasn't been in the black since the early 90's.

The original NPP licensing arm kept the comics division alive starting in the 50's. DC technically bought Warner Bros because NPP had more licensing value than the dying Seven Arts/WB film studio.

And Marvel only survived the 90's because of the laundering game Toy Biz was able to play with licensing, which created the cartoon boom.

Comic sales today are better than they have been in sometime, but the DC to LA move clarifies these are publishing divisions for IP.

[MIB41]

I would argue that part of the reasons that toy licenses are big bucks now is due to the success of Mego and Kenner in the 1970s. Movie licenses were considered a gamble prior the Apes and Star Wars explosions. I've also heard that the merchandising royalties were keeping DC afloat at one point.

I wholeheartedly agree. I would add the "new 52" has always registered (to me) as a merchandising move more than a comic revamp. Its not like they can't go back to their roots when the concept has run it's course. The reset button seems to be a commonly used tool when the creative staff write themselves into a corner and sales bog down. Of course these days theatrical releases seem to spread the most influence in what Warner Bros. does with it's related product line. I've often wondered what will happen to the comic market when the movie boom ends? My first guess is comics will become virtual product to eliminate overhead costs in printing/distribution and join the growing numbers who have moved to online imagery. A sad day indeed.

[palitoy]

We often forget the reason why companies like Mego and Ideal prospered so inexpensively back in the day is because the license holders were practically giving these rights away since no one knew what the market would bring back then.

I would argue that part of the reasons that toy licenses are big bucks now is due to the success of Mego and Kenner in the 1970s. Movie licenses were considered a gamble prior the Apes and Star Wars explosions. I've also heard that the merchandising royalties were keeping DC afloat at one point.

[MIB41]

Those licenses cost demonstrably less than KISS or DC Comics and I'm willing to bet that the holders are more flexible with royalties vs upfront money. I've got a comic book license right now that was just tremendously easy to work with. Why? mostly because they want an action figure to happen. Warner Brothers and especially Gene Simmons has gots to get paid.

Also, BBP's most expensive figure license is Doctor Who and the figures are running $22.00 a pop now. Of course, once a competitor raises a price, it kind of opens the flood gates.

However, I'm not really game to debate or defend FTC and wasn't inviting that by my post. I haven't formed a bias or opinion yet. My sole point was that you cannot always do an apples to apples "this cost $2.00 in 1976 and should now be" type argument with this stuff.

I certainly respect that opinion. I was just pointing out that FTC is always the front runner in high prices. Like any product coming to market, I'm a big believer in trying to be competitive. And your original point about licensing costs today compared to yesteryear is well stated. We often forget the reason why companies like Mego and Ideal prospered so inexpensively back in the day is because the license holders were practically giving these rights away since no one knew what the market would bring back then. Well said Brian.

[palitoy]

I use to accept the production volume and licensing as a big factor in that final price tag. And surely that plays a role no doubt. My problem here is that equation doesn't seem to follow with different companies. When FTC first started charging $25.00 for their figures, how was it Castaway got away with charging alot less on the Phantom or Captain Action?

Those licenses cost demonstrably less than KISS or DC Comics and I'm willing to bet that the holders are more flexible with royalties vs upfront money. I've got a comic book license right now that was just tremendously easy to work with. Why? mostly because they want an action figure to happen. Warner Brothers and especially Gene Simmons has gots to get paid.

Also, BBP's most expensive figure license is Doctor Who and the figures are running $22.00 a pop now. Of course, once a competitor raises a price, it kind of opens the flood gates.

However, I'm not really game to debate or defend FTC and wasn't inviting that by my post. I haven't formed a bias or opinion yet. My sole point was that you cannot always do an apples to apples "this cost $2.00 in 1976 and should now be" type argument with this stuff.

[MIB41]

You're not factoring in economies of scale. BIG difference in doing a run of say 5,000 versus several 100,000 like Mego did in the day.

This is a boutique run compared to it's original hey day.

Part of my job is regular product development in China, the difference between a small shipment and filling a container can't be glossed over.

Oh and licensing fees? They've tripled in 40 years, with more on the up front than on the back end. I did a small deal with DC comics a few years back that cost more than Mego likely paid to get the whole WGSH!

I use to accept the production volume and licensing as a big factor in that final price tag. And surely that plays a role no doubt. My problem here is that equation doesn't seem to follow with different companies. When FTC first started charging $25.00 for their figures, how was it Castaway got away with charging alot less on the Phantom or Captain Action? How is it BBP charges significantly less on brand new SMDM and BSG figures? Don't they share the same cost controls as FTC (if not more)? Plus FTC has the advantage of being both the manufacturer and the retailer for most of these figures as Paul has pointed out. And since we're on the subject of pricing, have you noticed how different the pricing is on their two separate websites? They will discount or part out their product on the CTVT website, but keep it full scale price at their Figure Toys page. They also vary differently on shipping cost as well. So when it comes to pricing and just a general sense of what is being handed down to the consumer based on the cost of doing "business", I think it's safe to say FTC isn't bashful about chasing that top dollar and overlooking competitive pricing, yes? In a nutshell, they monitor and collect consumer interest from forums; buy those licenses they think will sell fast; price them high end to the collectors for profit; then sell off the parts (also for profit) to those waiting for the remains. And that's fine if that business model works for them. But as a consumer, I have a greater respect for people like Jason, Craig, and David for coming out here and treating the consumer as a person and passing along savings rather than gouging them for the perceived "privilege" of giving them something they want. That's one philosophy I differ in greatly from some here. I NEVER feel "grateful" when I open my wallet. That emotion should come from the seller getting my money. When I open my wallet, I'm saying I like what I see and I like the price asked to have it. If it's a small company and my perception of those people is positive, I will inject emotion at that point and buy MORE in support of that respect. That's not a new idea in business or to the collector market. It's called consumer confidence and loyalty. People will buy brands based on that idea. I don't think FTC follows that philosophy.

[Chris]

You're not factoring in economies of scale. BIG difference in doing a run of say 5,000 versus several 100,000 like Mego did in the day.

This is a boutique run compared to it's original hey day.

Part of my job is regular product development in China, the difference between a small shipment and filling a container can't be glossed over.

Oh and licensing fees? They've tripled in 40 years, with more on the up front than on the back end. I did a small deal with DC comics a few years back that cost more than Mego likely paid to get the whole WGSH!

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing. I love the behind-the-scenes insider view.

[palitoy]

Uni is correct. Mego's were closer to $3.00 than $5.00. I have some boxed Megos with a sticker barely over $2.00. A realistic price adjustment today would be closer to $15.00 for a base line hero like this offering.

You're not factoring in economies of scale. BIG difference in doing a run of say 5,000 versus several 100,000 like Mego did in the day.

This is a boutique run compared to it's original hey day.

Part of my job is regular product development in China, the difference between a small shipment and filling a container can't be glossed over.

Oh and licensing fees? They've tripled in 40 years, with more on the up front than on the back end. I did a small deal with DC comics a few years back that cost more than Mego likely paid to get the whole WGSH!

[MIB41]

Uni is correct. Mego's were closer to $3.00 than $5.00. I have some boxed Megos with a sticker barely over $2.00. A realistic price adjustment today would be closer to $15.00 for a base line hero like this offering.

[Uni]

As far as price goes, I remember Megos for 5 dollars back in the 1970's. Back then that would be about 25 dollars in todays money. I will be buying them as they still have that old time charm to them.

If wages and income had kept up with inflation, yes. But as Americans we no longer have anywhere near the same buying power that we did in the 1970s.

For example: In 1977, minimum wage was $2.30 (inflationally adjusted, $21.16 in today's money!). Median price for a new home was $45,000, and median income was approximately $12,000 (or, inflationally adjusted to "today's money, approximately $47,000!).

What that means is that your house could be purchased at about 4x your annual income, and one hour at minimum wage it was approximately half a Mego. (They were much, much cheaper from Heroes World, and Toys R Us, btw- closer to $3/ea).

Unfortunately, as we know, minimum wage is $7.71. That's ~3 hours to earn a FTC Batman. Yow!

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In other news, Is there any news on whether these will actually ship in November?

[Relic]

These figures look really nice in my opinion. They are not exact but that may be a good thing. Vintage Megos should hold there value because of the very subtle differences with the new ones. As far as price goes, I remember Megos for 5 dollars back in the 1970's. Back then that would be about 25 dollars in todays money. I will be buying them as they still have that old time charm to them.