Netflix SDCC She-Ra trailer. Yeah, it's bad.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^Well, that's true. They may have been a victim of their own success in that area, with watchdog groups keeping an eye on kids' favorite thing of the time.

Chris

[palitoy]

That is a really interesting notion that I've thought about before as well.

There is no doubt to me that the cartoon added rocket fuel to the property. I witnessed that first hand when I was 12, while I found it too juvenile for my tastes, it was an unbelievable phenom with younger kids.

They were the first ones out of the gate, so it's understandable but I do kind of think the show didn't have a broad enough demographic. Later shows like GI Joe, Transformers would appeal to boys 5-12 but I think He-Man was more of 3-8 kind of thing.

It was a massive success but I personally think kids dropped MOTU at a stage before they were done with toys.

[Werewolf]

Transformers got to fly under the radar for violence. Transformers could get away with actually shooting each other because they are all robots and were considered technically not living things. Transformers the movie was actually pretty dark and violent. Autobots were dropping like flies and had some fairly graphic onscreen deaths and it still only got a PG rating because of Spike's one swear word.

[Werewolf]

Don't get me wrong, Transformers the movie is a great movie. But if they had made a He-Man animated movie and which Skeletor brutally killed He-Man by slashing him in the side with a sword and then repeatedly shooting him in the open wound until he fell, it would have gotten an R rating. Even with all the violence and deaths Transformers the movie was still only going to be rated G. They added one swear word to up the rating to PG because they wanted to avoid the kiddie matinees.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^...and then they took it out on VHS as I recall. I remember being stunned by the deaths and violence, and that lone swear word. It rocked my world.

Chris

[palitoy]

I understand what you're saying but I think it's bigger than just the movie's tone, I knew guys in high school who read the Transformers comics and even one who collected the toys(waaaaaayyy on the downlow mind you).

I wasn't into to it at all but I asked them what was the appeal and they said the show and the comics seemed to be written to appeal to our age group. I even saw the movie with them, I run into other guys my age and I liked it. Not enough to watch the show, buy the toys or read the comic but I remember thinking this was ok.

Personally, I think the MOTU show didn't have that going for it and I think kids would seek more "adult" fare like Transformers as they got a little older. Why they didn't get a new wave of kids to fill their place might point to how accessable the basic figures were? I'm sure that's an issue that's been discussed.

Coincidently, I feel the same about "Big Jim" toys of my childhood, I loved the fishing playset at four but as I got older it seemed a little "kiddie", they tried with the P.A.C.K to keep my interest (and in my case totally succeeded) but I think the brand faltered because it was so innocent.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^You said what I was trying to get at far more coherently than I did. I WAS a MOTU kid and fan back then, and it was the first toyline I dropped, and up to that point I literally had EVERYTHING in the line. I dropped out in late 85 as I recall, but kept going with Transformers, GI Joe, MASK and Super Powers for the next couple of years. He-Man had a stigma about it when you got past 9 or 10 at the time, at least by my experience, and I think that had to do with the more "kid-centric" angle of the cartoon.

[enyawd72]

I don't know how much of MOTU's success was really derived from the cartoon. Some for sure, but it might not be as much as you think. Me and literally ALL my friends were HUGE fans of the toys but never even saw the cartoon because it never appeared on the "big three" networks. Whatever channel it was syndicated on didn't show in our area. For us, MOTU was all about the toys and the stories from the mini-comics, storybooks, and records.

When I think of MOTU, I still think of Alfredo Alcala and Earl Norem art to this day.

When I think of my childhood favorite cartoons...He-Man isn't even on the list.

[palitoy]

I don't know how much of MOTU's success was really derived from the cartoon. Some for sure, but it might not be as much as you think. Me and literally ALL my friends were HUGE fans of the toys but never even saw the cartoon because it never appeared on the "big three" networks. Whatever channel it was syndicated on didn't show in our area. For us, MOTU was all about the toys and the stories from the mini-comics, storybooks, and records.

When I think of MOTU, I still think of Alfredo Alcala and Earl Norem art to this day.

When I think of my childhood favorite cartoons...He-Man isn't even on the list.

Well that's the pratfall of a syndicated show, I'm sure your peers were motivated more by it's overwhelming presence on toy shelves and the TV commercials. I personally was drawn to the box art and character designs, the animated show had me opt out quickly, it felt weird.

In my neck of the woods i heard "I HAVE THE POWER" every recess. It's impact on the play pattern was huge where it aired, I don't like it either but it moved mountains of toys.

[palitoy]

He-Man had a stigma about it when you got past 9 or 10 at the time, at least by my experience, and I think that had to do with the more "kid-centric" angle of the cartoon.

Yeah, there's some creeping cynicism when you reach a certain age, it's the thing that makes you hide your stuffed animals from your friends even though you really like them. I'm not saying it's a good thing, it probably isn't but it exists.

[Werewolf]

In my neck of the woods i heard "I HAVE THE POWER" every recess. It's impact on the play pattern was huge where it aired, I don't like it either but it moved mountains of toys.

Yeah, love it or hate it there is no denying the absolutely massive impact the cartoon had.

[Werewolf]

Yeah, there's some creeping cynicism when you reach a certain age, it's the thing that makes you hide your stuffed animals from your friends even though you really like them.

I can understand that but it still a little sad. I was shy kid and didn't really care what my classmates thought so I never really had to deal with that. It also helped my Mom collected dolls at the time so I never really aged out of toys.

[palitoy]

I can understand that but it still a little sad.

Well, I agree with you but it's something boys do, I remember my mom bought me a Sesame Street rain coat in the third grade. By third grade I wanted a KISS one, I didn't really like KISS all that much but it was what the other boys were into. I felt weird about the Sesame Street one.

[Earth 2 Chris]

I was kind of the same way with Smurfs. Smurfs were huge when the HB cartoon first hit Saturdays, and I already had some figurines because my Mom managed a Hallmark store. Suddenly Smurfs were the huge fad and everyone loved them. Flashforward a few years and we were supposed to have aged out of them, but my Mom would still bring me home new Smurfs. I had to keep them on the downlow.

Its' not right, but it's an unfortunate truth of childhood. My daughter is a huge Lego fan, and being my daughter, is a huge Lego Batman fan. She got a Lego Batman Movie backpack a year or so ago, and some of her female school friends commented "that's for boys" and she said it made her feel weird about it. She stuck with it until it fell apart, so I admire her for sticking to her guns. She is a bit less worried about what other kids think than I was.

Chris

[hedrap]

This is a good thread.

MOTU really splits into two branches, pre and post Filmation. I'm with Dwayne, Pali and Chris in the Pre-camp. I'm really with D in that Alcala's work, the Golden books, the box/card art is what sold me.

For me it's anecdotal, but as time has gone on, it seems be more a zeitgeist of that moment. I saw Conan's premiere on HBO, and that supplanted all, but there was no toys until He-Man. We're talking first wave release. I just ran into it at a dept toy store and stopped dead in my tracks.

It was obviously a Conan knock-off, but the box/card art told me all I needed to know. I know I got the main four that day, maybe even Zodac and Stratos. I devoured the first wave by Christmas. Wind Raider, Battle Ram, Grayskull...you name it.

All of it made sense with the sci-fi/fantasy movie offerings of the time. It was like this amazing merger. Flash Gordon had Hawkmen (Stratos), Krull had a Cyclops (Tri-Klops), Skeletor was a D&D Litch, Beast Man was a new Ape Man, Mer-Man the sea creature, Trap Jaw was pulling from several characters...

...and then Ram Man. Ok. And Man-E-Face. Now the names are gags and things quickly move that direction. The DC series abruptly drops everything from the mini-comics, which made zero sense as the other tie-ins like the Golden Books, held to preternia. Then, Filmation arrives and sweeps everything out. Here comes Orko and Prince Candyass and his sissy tiger. A 180 from preternia.

The characters got more hokey. For every Kobra Khan, there was a Mekanek and Fisto. Then I saw a Prince Adam figure and shuddered. The last character I made it to was Whiplash. I remember seeing Grizzolr and thinking "what a mess". But when I was told Hordak was more powerful then Skeletor, I tapped out. Hordak was a garbage design, like the entire wave 4 was.

By this point, it's '86 and was fading out of any toys that didn't have a tween vibe to it. I could make GI Joe work because of action flicks. Secret Wars was Marvel. Instead of following the movies, He-Man went little kids. I mean, how was there not Carni-Vorr, evil invisible alien as a Predator knock-off. Or Z-NO, the evil Alien bug? Instead, it's King Hiss and Tung Lasher.

There was no logic behind the direction things went other than "hey kids, cartoons"! But the toy line had already exploded in popularity a year earlier. This why so many of us believed (I still do), that He-Man was a Conan ripoff and Matty was afraid of a lawsuit so they rewrote the idea, twice.