Saying NO to Retro...

[jimsmegos]

I totally agree. I love walking through the toy isle and seeing stuff like sock monkeys, chatter phones and monchichis again.

That's my point exactly... they're gearing towards us instead of our kids. I'm not saying that's a bad thing though, it just seems not quite right for today's kids. Especially if you consider that the toys we speak of are no longer attached to the original marketing/ TV show/ movie that we related to so well.

On the flip side of that point, if you do get your kids involved a little deeper in the product by way of DVD sets, then that's cool to me. I think all of the marketing muscle added to the coolness of all of these toys. Let's be honest, if it weren't for the Super Friends and super hero cartoons more so than comics do you think the original WGSH line would have done as well?

[megoscott]

I get what you mean, Jim. I'm a little cold to the trend myself. I see it and it INSTANTLY activates my interest, it's a very powerful thing, but it's also creatively...dead? It's the same reason Hollywood makes so many movies based on TV shows and cartoons we used to watch. It's a kind of shorthand that feels meaningful but doesn't really mean anything. How long can they sell toys based on nostalgia? They've revived the 70s and 80s toys, isn't it a loop that just turns in on itself?

To me, it's best summed up by an idea pushed by the president of a company I used to work for. I'm a peddler in nostalgia, so the very idea angered and threatened me, but I think he has a point.

Summed up here from a magazine article:

Nostalgia is death
Quoting Bob Dylan, Paul Budnitz, founder of Kidrobot, took aim at the marketing world's tendency to slavishly ape bygone pop culture. (That means you, VH1 and Hello Kitty.) Mr. Budnitz said there's no creativity behind thinking derivatively -- like, for example, when marketers create toy spinoffs of blockbuster films. He offered the notion that real creativity is about making something that is "entirely new and in the moment." He did, however, distinguish nostalgia (bad) from appropriation (good), in which familiar themes serve as a jumping-off point for the creation of a completely fresh idea.

There's a video of his lecture about this. I don't particularly like him or Kidrobot, but it's a provocative idea. Nostalgia is Death

[Werewolf]

That's my point exactly... they're gearing towards us instead of our kids.

My beliefs are why not share great things from the past with new generations.

When I was a kid I was never the type that the stuff my grandparents or parents liked equals outdated and lame. Sure I liked my heavy metal in the 80s but that doesn't mean I couldn't enjoy music from the 60s, 50s, 40s, etc. I loved Lita Ford but I also loved the Chordettes too.

I dug Star Wars as a kid but I still dug old black and whites movies. I may also love the PS3 and its awesome graphics but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy Atari 2600 games anymore.

It's like saying the heck with Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck. We now have Yugioh or whatever anime is hot right now. Superman is like what 70 years old? That doesn't mean we should stop making Superman toys and comics.

Just look at some of the art styles and designs of the movies from the 30s or 40s. It is amazingly beautiful. Why forget that and pave over everything in CGI.

No reason why we can't have the best of the old and the new. There are so many great things past generations have left us from toys to movies to music it would be a shame to leave it in the past and forgotten.

[livnxxxl]

Wanted to buy may son the new AT AT until I saw the price Think I'll get a vintage one for half the price.

I just seen these at Wal-Mart yesterday for $100.00. The funny thing about that is that a kid ran up to them very excited right before I walked up and he told his Mom "look it is the Star Wars At-At". Then he seen the price and said $100.00?!?! and they all walked away including myself. I am more about the principal than the money.

If I continued to spend my money like a fool then I would be like the rest of the people these days. Broke and trying to figure out what they did wrong after it is too late. I will just wait for some other idiot to buy it and then sell it to me when they have to get rid of it to pay their bills later.

I thought it was neat that, but not that neat. It is not that I did not have the money I am just looking at it from a more common sense approach. Most of today's parents just throw it on a credit card any way. That is why America is in the big mess that it is in now.

The bottom line is that I to would much rather go and buy two vintage At-At's for the price of the new one. And pay cash doing it!

The price points of today's toys is really getting ridiculous. Those selling it try and justify the "extra" expenses by saying that the labor is higher and the plastic is higher blah....blah....blah....The real issue that I see it is the CEO pay is way too high. That is where all of the money being saved on production is really going. When you really think about it was there any CEO's back in the 70's making 12 million a year in the toy industry?? Uhh No!

[Werewolf]

I forgot to add an appreciation for past generation's pop culture is not just nostalgia based. Since the people with the everything new is great and everything old sucks and should be forgotten like to use the world nostalgia like a profanity this needs to be mentioned.

I like loads of toys, movies and music of past generations that I didn't even know existed as a kid. Like a lot of the space and robot toys from the 50s and 60s. When I was a kid I had no idea about toys like Major Matt Mason, The Outer Spacemen or King Zor. I don't like them because of nostalgia. I like them because they are freakin' awesome toys.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

Recycling isn't new. I was amazed as a teenager to find out how much of my youth was recycled. It's nice that it'll always be possible for someone who needs one to get say; a Vader figure. It's sad that there are folks who HAVE to amass every one that comes down the pike. It's weird that companies are marketing SORT OF to both. I suspect the "collector" paradigm is shifting, and they're aiming more for actual kids, but still hanging onto the collectors. Mostly 'cos companies don't do "new" so good.

Don C.

[jimsmegos]

Werewolf my friend I think your missing my point. I completely agree with you in preserving and sharing the past. And I too think it is great that the old toys are available again in new versions. My point is that (I really believe this), that the price points/ MSRP are as such because the toy industry knows that WE the parents are buying these and are more willing to buy them because of our fond memories attached to them. Look at it like this.... if kids were still using only their allowance to buy toys like I did when I was a kid, It'd be almost impossible to buy new toys with the frequency that I was able to as a kid.

Add to all of this the fact that the quality of these new toys are really not worth the money. The Matty bodies suck. Period. The new Star Wars toys are incredibly sculpted and insanely articulated but they pop apart and or break very easily.

[HardyGirl]

I'm very grateful that my mom told me about stuff from when she was a kid. Because of that, I love old time radio shows. I wasn't shocked about no TV in the 30s and 40s, b/c my mom told me about the fun things about being a kid in those days. I am just as entertained by old time radio (been listening to Jim's Advnetures Of Superman radio shows!), as I am by cartoons. And Werewolf is right, it's not always about nostalgia (although it isn't a dirty word, that's why we're all here!), it's that back before CGI, video games and cell phones, people had imagination, and took the time to make cool stuff,(whether on accident, like Slinky and Playdoh, or on purpose). Some plenty of toys are just timeless, while others are just fads. Give a baby a FP chatter phone, and they don't care about cell phones or ringtones, to them, it's just a phone. Give a little kid a sock monkey, and they don't care that it doesn't have a computer code and stuff online to go w/ it, to them, it's just a snuggly source of comfort. I bring lotsa classic toys in for "Sharing Day" at my school. The kids don't care about graphics, or no sounds, or that it doesn't require batteries, to them, their teacher is just sharing fun toys w/ them. "Bring it again, next time, Sharry."

[livnxxxl]

The new Star Wars toys are incredibly sculpted and insanely articulated but they pop apart and or break very easily.

That is largely due to the fact that they are much smaller thus "saving" the company even more money by using less plastic to make them. Yet at the same time they are charging more $$$ while the consumer continues to get less.

The worst part about it is that most of the consumers seem to be alright with this ideology. The educated consumer is no longer educated.

[HardyGirl]

Believe it or not, Jim, many times, crappy quality is on purpose.

Sadly,most of the grade school kids I know don't get an allowance, (and some never even heard of one!), parents just give them things or money. A kid asks for a toy, it breaks and parents buy another one to keep the kid happy. (sad but true). Toy companies know this, and to save the almighty dollar, cut corners, b/c they know in the end, it's not really going to matter. Parents will buy more than one of them, and they'll just make more money.

Werewolf my friend I think your missing my point. I completely agree with you in preserving and sharing the past. And I too think it is great that the old toys are available again in new versions. My point is that (I really believe this), that the price points/ MSRP are as such because the toy industry knows that WE the parents are buying these and are more willing to buy them because of our fond memories attached to them. Look at it like this.... if kids were still using only their allowance to buy toys like I did when I was a kid, It'd be almost impossible to buy new toys with the frequency that I was able to as a kid.

Add to all of this the fact that the quality of these new toys are really not worth the money. The Matty bodies suck. Period. The new Star Wars toys are incredibly sculpted and insanely articulated but they pop apart and or break very easily.

[Werewolf]

I also really can understand parents wanting to buy toys like they grew up with for their little kids because a lot of new stuff forced on kids is not really appropriate. Care Bears, Monchichis, Weebles and Fisher Price Little People are cute and sweet looking. This Domo character they've tried really hard to push looks like a an angry walking turd with teeth.

[jimsmegos]

Believe it or not, Jim, many times, crappy quality is on purpose.

Sadly,most of the grade school kids I know don't get an allowance, (and some never even heard of one!), parents just give them things or money. A kid asks for a toy, it breaks and parents buy another one to keep the kid happy. (sad but true). Toy companies know this, and to save the almighty dollar, cut corners, b/c they know in the end, it's not really going to matter. Parents will buy more than one of them, and they'll just make more money.

And that's what breaks my heart and angers me all at the same time. To me there is nothing worse than getting my son (my daughter isn't quite there yet, her toys are stuffed ) and it break right out of the package. To me that's a billion times worse than paying too much for the toy to begin with.

I honestly would have no problem plopping down $20 for a new action figure so long as it is something that 1. he really likes and 2. will hold up to regular play. 30 plus years later Mego WGSH and Kenner Star Wars figures still have as much play left in 'em as when they were new.

[jimsmegos]

I also really can understand parents wanting to buy toys like they grew for their little kids like because a lot of new stuff forced on kids is not really appropriate. Care Bears, Monchichis, Weebles and Fisher Price Little People are cute and sweet looking. This Domo character they've tried really hard to push looks like a an angry walking turd with teeth.

And let us not forget how wonderful the cartoons were that were associated with most of the toys back in the day. While Monchichi's was a bit annoying my daughter (8 months now) LOVES the Care Bears cartoons we've picked up. 4-3-2-1, Do the Care Bears Countdown!... And watching them as a parent now I get so mad that modern cartoons simply DO NOT have the same effort put into them. Even with She Ra and He Man being produced at a much more rapid fire pace than traditional Saturday morning fare, the animation style and quality is a hundred times better than what I see today on Cartoon Network or any of te other modern cartoon outlets.

[megoscott]

^^ Um. No. Animation standards are way higher than you grew you with. Compare the new Scooby Doo to anything made between 1970 and 1990. They made cartoons with 3 backgrounds and a run cycle. They put a lot more work into cartoons now...because...wait for it...they are selling toys. Which comes back to your original point that I agree with.

And when your daughter gets older you'll be glad there's so many GREAT cartoons that're actually created for girls now. That's one aspect of retro I can do without.

[jimsmegos]

^^ Um. No. Animation standards are way higher than you grew you with. Compare the new Scooby Doo to anything made between 1970 and 1990. They made cartoons with 3 backgrounds and a run cycle. They put a lot more work into cartoons now...because...wait for it...they are selling toys. Which comes back to your original point that I agree with.

And when your daughter gets older you'll be glad there's so many cartoons that're actually created for girls now. That's one aspect of retro I can do without.

Not to offend but what I was referring to specifically was with the Care Bears... it had a much more "organic" feel to it. I totally admit that the styles of then versus now animation wise are superior but it seems the storytelling and certain aspects seem too mechanical IMO.