Up Close: Wolverine

[LonnieFisher]

I'm not a fan of Diamond/EMCE's RM Wolvie---but, then again, I'm not a fan of Mego's RM Batman either!

I'm gonna have to challenge the naysayers, and say "What the jehosaphat's goin' on here with the extreme negative design commentary?"

ALL three look as Mego as you can get. There's that.

But what I find truly odd, is that people are posting and championing customs, praising their designs over Diamond/EMCE's when Diamond/EMCE's actually LOOK LIKE MEGOS.

Why don't we just start posting Flatt's and begin THAT debate for the umpteenth time in this thread? After reading a lot of these posts, it seems just as well to do so.

Sometimes I think that people who make these posts with don't understand the goals of Diamond/EMCE, or I think, maybe they never really liked Mego WGSH figures to begin with.

All three do not look as "Mego" as you can get. Once again, the yellow version isn't anything Mego would have made. It is almost a direct copy of the Famous Covers Wolverine. The boots look like FC boots. The gloves look like FC gloves. The face looks like the FC face. The removable mask was a poor choice by FC that was also a poor choice by Emce. The Famous Covers Wolverine did come with hands under the gloves, though. The Emce figure actually looks slightly better if you put hands on him and then replace the gloves.
To copy a Mego figure is great, but to use the style of a lesser toy line is a letdown to the fans and customers. I always hated the FC Wolverine figures, so it's very hard to try and accept anything that resembles it.

[huedell]

All three do not look as "Mego" as you can get. Once again, the yellow version isn't anything Mego would have made. It is almost a direct copy of the Famous Covers Wolverine. The boots look like FC boots. The gloves look like FC gloves. The face looks like the FC face. The removable mask was a poor choice by FC that was also a poor choice by Emce. The Famous Covers Wolverine did come with hands under the gloves, though. The Emce figure actually looks slightly better if you put hands on him and then replace the gloves.
To copy a Mego figure is great, but to use the style of a lesser toy line is a letdown to the fans and customers. I always hated the FC Wolverine figures, so it's very hard to try and accept anything that resembles it.

With respect, your take on it reads like a grudge towards FC that's taken out on Emce, and it doesn't seem fair to the Emce product. Again, apologies for my probing assumption, but I'm only going off of what you said about the resemblances between FC's and this Emce one. To me, it seems most of those similarities you named can be chalked up to that we're making the SAME exact character/costume within essentially the same toy format, so of course there are going to be similarities.

Regarding the gloves, you could just as easily skip PAST the FC comparison and concede it's even MORE different---it's an Emce conceit to put out their own retro product in a unique way that is deliberately NOT a MEGO reference.

[huedell]

^^^ There's a glut of product out there for the Mego scale figure right now, which suggests an expansion within the marketplace that goes beyond the standard 45 to 50 year old that grew up with them. I think it's time to drop the illusion that only one style fits all. Neca is making a eight inch figure that is a hybrid between Mego and McFarlane styles that has found a great response on many licenses they've used it on thus far. FTC is replicating the original Mego look from the early 70's, but also moving forward with more detailed figures with better designs than Mego ever envisioned. And then you have BBP who is taking all of those ideas and going after a very wide range of age groups with licensing from the 70's, 80's, and present day. Blend in EMCE and Diamond Direct then add the customizers who privately sell their goods and you have this vast array of styles that plug the Mego scale but also bring their own inventiveness to the table in some very pleasing ways that one can't duplicate in a factory without an enormous impact to cost. So I don't feel there is any conspiracy to demean lines so much as point out matters that involve either personal taste or indeed issues of actual quality that need to be talked about. Forums would cease to exist if everyone shared the same herd mentality that only those making these products 'know better' and we're to 'be grateful' and follow their lead.

This is the free market at work and anyone who steps into this arena had best have a thick skin because the consumer speaks loudly regarding this particular product. What's deemed valid in that conversation is ultimately whether those viewpoints encourage or discourage wallets to open or close on the matter, because no one does this without some measure of risk involved. There's almost no product I can think of in recent memory that has received overwhelming support across the board. People have their point of view and I think they should be heard. It's when you start labeling opinions that a smell of censorship comes into the fold and I'm not for that. No one should have to be in lock step with a popular opinion anymore than someone should keep harping on a point to make everyone miserable who likes something. Hopefully everyone can share their likes and dislikes without someone attacking them for that privilege and asking them to validate that opinion just to be argumentative.

I disagree.

These new Wolverines and the line they belong to are "Mego retro" figures. Even moreso than Emce's venture with Mattel.

In fact, that very union of DC/Mattel and Emce even MORESO defines what this new Diamond/Emce product is about (i.e. it's obviously even MORE Mego-style than a compromise of "modern hybrids" or "modern uber-detailed stuff" or whatever-the-hey that Emce leaned towards with their DC/Mattel union)

With this more definitive POV in mind, and all the "custom Wolverine silliness" in this thread, I think a line (if, admittedly a very FINE line) needs to be drawn. I drew it.

I respect your disagreement.

[enyawd72]

I'm not a fan of Diamond/EMCE's RM Wolvie---but, then again, I'm not a fan of Mego's RM Batman either!

I'm gonna have to challenge the naysayers, and say "What the jehosaphat's goin' on here with the extreme negative design commentary?"

ALL three look as Mego as you can get. There's that.

But what I find truly odd, is that people are posting and championing customs, praising their designs over Diamond/EMCE's when Diamond/EMCE's actually LOOK LIKE MEGOS.

Why don't we just start posting Flatt's and begin THAT debate for the umpteenth time in this thread? After reading a lot of these posts, it seems just as well to do so.

Sometimes I think that people who make these posts with don't understand the goals of Diamond/EMCE, or I think, maybe they never really liked Mego WGSH figures to begin with.

Ummm...NO. I own all the original Marvel WGSH, so I'm pretty sure I like them. The EMCE versions are inferior. PERIOD. My vintage Mego suits don't snag every time I look at them funny. My vintage Captain America's star is completely affixed without all the points curling up. The EMCE figures have a LOT of design issues that are just baffling. For instance...Wolverine's gloves. WHY not just take a pair of Mr. Fantastic gloves and add claws to them? They would then perfectly match the aesthetic of the vintage figures. It was the obvious way to go, yet they chose NOT to do it...makes no sense to me. Why the thick rubber boots? Why does modern EMCE Spider-Man have boots at all? They were completely unnecessary and look out of place.FTC is getting much more right. Their figures are about as Mego as you can get.

[wise guy]

I don't remember Mego selling Capt Action because the Diamond sets are closer to Capt Action( with the heads and clothes) than anything I ever purchased from Mego

[huedell]

.FTC is getting much more right. Their figures are about as Mego as you can get.

Sometimes. Sometimes not. Just like Emce.

Ummm...NO. I own all the original Marvel WGSH, so I'm pretty sure I like them.

Please, with respect. In that post, I wasn't pointing you out specifically, nor did I say anything more than "Sometimes I think that..." key word "think"---second key word "sometimes". If you're "not" that kind of person I hypothesized about, then, no need to take that personally.

The EMCE versions are inferior. PERIOD.

Well, that ends that

My vintage Mego suits don't snag every time I look at them funny. My vintage Captain America's star is completely affixed without all the points curling up.

To be clear, I wasn't referring to those technical design flaws----more of the Mego-"look". I myself have complained about the very stuff you've listed though, so there's that.

The EMCE figures have a LOT of design issues that are just baffling. For instance...Wolverine's gloves. WHY not just take a pair of Mr. Fantastic gloves and add claws to them? They would then perfectly match the aesthetic of the vintage figures. It was the obvious way to go, yet they chose NOT to do it...makes no sense to me. Why the thick rubber boots? Why does modern EMCE Spider-Man have boots at all? They were completely unnecessary and look out of place.

This is the stuff^^^ we're not really seeing eye-to-eye on, and I'm cool with agreeing to disagree. Spider-Man modern was an opportunity to try boots on a classic figure, as we already HAVE the bootless one in the pack. Who knows WHY they changed the glove up a bit....maybe to attach the claws? Then of course there are the removable parts which is, as I mentioned above, is a sensible Emce caveat for the specially constructed packaged sets.

As far as the "thickness" of the boots? I don't think it is as much as an issue as others here have said. I think it's cool to get a new style Megoesque "V" cut hero boot. Newer Mego Titan and Fantastic Four boots were quite thick themselves...."new" to the WGSH line themselves...even "back in the day".

[huedell]

I don't remember Mego selling Capt Action because the Diamond sets are closer to Capt Action( with the heads and clothes) than anything I ever purchased from Mego

And that very "Captain Action" aspect is a huge win AFAIC for Emce. It's their contribution to selling Mego style toys in a unique way based on yet another classic toy concept, and you either like it or you don't.

I think it's clever. A repro Mego box IN a Captain Action-esque set presentation? Neat idea.

[LonnieFisher]

With respect, your take on it reads like a grudge towards FC that's taken out on Emce, and it doesn't seem fair to the Emce product. Again, apologies for my probing assumption, but I'm only going off of what you said about the resemblances between FC's and this Emce one. To me, it seems most of those similarities you named can be chalked up to that we're making the SAME exact character/costume within essentially the same toy format, so of course there are going to be similarities.

Regarding the gloves, you could just as easily skip PAST the FC comparison and concede it's even MORE different---it's an Emce conceit to put out their own retro product in a unique way that is deliberately NOT a MEGO reference.

With respect, you are totally wrong. If Famous Covers Wolverine was never released, this Emce figure would not look like it does. Period. No argument can change that. Sorry. I've got no problem with FC making what they made. I bought every Wolverine variation they made. I bought every figure they made. For Emce to copy the exact junk that ToyBiz made, was a very bad mistake, in my opinion. I'm a bigger fan than most people here of both Mego and Marvel. The proof is in my skin, and my collection. Therefore, my opinion will be voiced, and I will try to get those who count to hear me and adjust their future product.
As far as both companies making the same characters in the same format... also wrong! Hence, all the different looking custom figures! Your imagination must be very limited if you think that FC was the only choice of construction details. How come the Mattel figures didn't look exactly like Mego figures? Same characters, same format. Emce just did a very poor copy of a very poor figure that they should have shunned, and not embraced! If they copy any more ToyBiz Famous Covers figures, I will call them out on those figures, too.
And to your last comment here, "NOT a MEGO reference.", this line is "Mego reproduction in Mego reproduction box", for the one figure. The others were, updated and civilian identity. Wolverine was supposed to be the figure that Mego would have made, if they made him. At least, that's what the impression I got. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[huedell]

With respect, you are totally wrong. If Famous Covers Wolverine was never released, this Emce figure would not look like it does. Period. No argument can change that. Sorry. I've got no problem with FC making what they made. I bought every Wolverine variation they made. I bought every figure they made. For Emce to copy the exact junk that ToyBiz made, was a very bad mistake, in my opinion. I'm a bigger fan than most people here of both Mego and Marvel. The proof is in my skin, and my collection. Therefore, my opinion will be voiced, and I will try to get those who count to hear me and adjust their future product.
As far as both companies making the same characters in the same format... also wrong! Hence, all the different looking custom figures! Your imagination must be very limited if you think that FC was the only choice of construction details. How come the Mattel figures didn't look exactly like Mego figures? Same characters, same format. Emce just did a very poor copy of a very poor figure that they should have shunned, and not embraced! If they copy any more ToyBiz Famous Covers figures, I will call them out on those figures, too.
And to your last comment here, "NOT a MEGO reference.", this line is "Mego reproduction in Mego reproduction box", for the one figure. The others were, updated and civilian identity. Wolverine was supposed to be the figure that Mego would have made, if they made him. At least, that's what the impression I got. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

With respect, you are totally wrong. If Famous Covers Wolverine was never released, this Emce figure would not look like it does. Period. No argument can change that.

Any argument I'd make would include the possibility that you are 100% correct.

As I said in that post

"To me, it seems most of those similarities you named can be chalked up to that we're making the SAME exact character/costume within essentially the same toy format, so of course there are going to be similarities."

That is why I said:

"Your take on it reads like a grudge towards FC that's taken out on Emce, and it doesn't seem fair to the Emce product."

and felt it was a pretty fair assessment.

It's particularly why I find your comment

If Famous Covers Wolverine was never released, this Emce figure would not look like it does.

quite notable, in that I could just as easily say that if it wasn't for Mego WGSH, then neither FC Wolverine, nor the entire FC line, nor the entire new Diamond/Emce Marvel line, or ANY of these retro lines would exist/"look like they do"... making the concept that there's something "unholy" about a resemblance between Emce's Wolvie and Mego's Wolvie seem that much more hollow.

[LonnieFisher]

It's particularly why I find your comment quite notable, in that I could just as easily say that if it wasn't for Mego WGSH, then neither FC Wolverine, nor the entire FC line, nor the entire new Diamond/Emce Marvel line, or ANY of these retro lines would exist/"look like they do"... making the concept that there's something "unholy" about a resemblance between Emce's Wolvie and Mego's Wolvie seem that much more hollow.

If it wasn't for mego, none of these would exist. This statement confuses me. What is the point you are trying to make? It's okay for the new Emce figure to suck because Mego existed, and so did Famous covers?

[Krypt0nite]

I think it is fair to conclude with reasonable certainty that Mego would not have made the design choices that most are disappointed with re: "classic" Wolverine.

Head sculpt: Mego made ONE figure with a removable cowl and subsequently remade that figure with a sculpted cowl, and never revisited that format for any other character. Also, the vast majority of Mego figures had a neutral expression. Famous Covers was billed as an update of Mego style, and its own thing. "Classic" Wolverine is billed as what Mego would have done, and is way off. The masked brown Wolverine looks far more in line with what Mego was actually doing.

Boots: Mego did occasionally (ex. Thor) make one-off boots but they were never as thick as either pair of Wolverine's.

Gloves: Mego had a couple of ways of handling gloves by the time Wolverine would have come out---cuffs on the end of flesh colored arms of a body suit (ex Green Arrow), or thinner gloves a la Mr. Fantastic or Iron Man.

Personally, I like enough about the set that I bought one even though I think the head/removable cowl is a total fail. Brown suited Wolverine, and Secret ID Logan are top notch, and Secret ID Logan head on the brown suit is very nice as well. The things I don't like about yellow suited Wolverine (head and gloves) are things that I will eventually replace with custom parts. I can certainly understand why someone might feel that they shouldn't have to customize anything out of a set that sells for a premium, though.

[LonnieFisher]

Yeah, let's go with this look. Like Mego would have done...

[PNGwynne]

As far as the "thickness" of the boots? I don't think it is as much as an issue as others here have said. I think it's cool to get a new style Megoesque "V" cut hero boot. Newer Mego Titan and Fantastic Four boots were quite thick themselves...."new" to the WGSH line themselves...even "back in the day".

Vintage Mego boots varied in thickness of course, and FF (really, Mr. Fantastic) boots tended to be more thickly-cast than earlier boots, of other colors. Alternatively, the TT boots I've handled, of whichever character, have been thin vinyl. I've seen more variance in Falcon & Thor boots.

To me, Emce's yellow Wolverine does suggest Famous Covers in a mostly unflattering way. I would say that the FC mask was actually a bit more practical and had better aesthetic lines than the FTC cowl. But the Emce boots, although similar, are actually a slimmer sculpt than FC.


As to "the Mego aesthetic", it's pretty easy (for me at least) to see that the brown version succeeds better as "Mego Mark II.

[Gorn Captain]

If it wasn't for mego, none of these would exist. This statement confuses me. What is the point you are trying to make? It's okay for the new Emce figure to suck because Mego existed, and so did Famous covers?

You make a good point.
So anything Mego did "wrong", should be copied and if possible made worse? Huh?

I would assume a little progress would be a good thing.
FTC and Neca's figures aren't perfect, but they do display a level of progress and an ability to combine finely crafted pieces with a toy-like quality.
Do they mess up? Sure. Look at Pota Taylor's suit.
Does this mean Wolverine should have similar flaws? I hope not!
And this close-up of the Wolverine figure clearly shows defects. And we know EMCE can do so much better, because their Universal Monsters were nothing short of fantastic. I love that whole line, and figures like Phantom and Creature I consider to be "perfect".

So far, this new Marvel line hasn't won me over. Let's hope things get better.

[wise guy]

You make a good point that the Universal Monsters were fantastic and the Marvel sets are not.It's too bad because I had high hopes on these sets but that
sculpted mullet on new Thor does not look too good .I will buy Thor for the classic Thor in box but the rest of that set will go into a box of parts just like
new Capt. America did