Why has AFA grabbed such a foothold in other figure communities but not Mego?

[MegoSteve]

I've never been a fan of AFA or CGC, but if I were to sell some of my rarer comics, I'd be sure to get them graded because, sadly, you need to if you want to get big bucks these days.

The problem inherent in these grading services is that grading is a subjective process, not an objective one. It can't be objective because there are so many factors involved in a grade and everyone has their own preference for what defects are worse than others. Which do you grade higher: a white book with bent corner or a yellowed copy with no bend?

I'm not super-familiar with AFA, but I've seen a few CGC comics where I wonder how the comic ended up with the grade it got. Maybe grading was stricter in the old days, but I just recently saw a golden age book with a CGC grade of 5.0 (VG/F in old-fashioned lingo) where it looked like a mouse chewed through the book about 1/4" off the top corner. I've also seen 9.2 and 9.4 bronze age comics that looked like they were yellow. You can't take CGC's grading at face value at all.

[samurainoir]

I think it also has to do with the fact that as toy collectors, for the most part we're coming back out of nostalgia as the primary motive. Mego are really play-friendly and super-articulated. You want to handle them.

We're also the last generation not to grow up with a price guide mentality. When it comes to toys at least (I often catch myself acting this way with comics for example, since I did grow up with those price guides and comic shops where I saw back issue pricing). There wasn't a hugely accessible culture of Toy Dealers when we were kids... we didn't even realize that could really be a job.

I'm firmly in the last rung of what we termed "Generation X", and the ones we call Generation Y, Nintendo Gen or simply Eighties kids would start with the latter years of Star Wars and encompass the large market for Gi Joe RAH, Transformers, MoTU, Thundercats etc. we're seeing right now.

Anyone younger than me would have had Wizard magazine shouting from every magazine rack and comic shop at them in their teens, tweens, and childhood, about how valuable all their childhood stuff is and would be. Wizard did have a piece of all that early grading action in the late nineties/early millenium as well didn't they? for them, there really never was much differentiation between "journalism" and Marketing if your owner/publisher also owns or is affiliated with retail venues.

toss in Pokemon cards, Beanie Babies, Pogs, and other such Price Guide driven fads/crazes, you've got a perfect storm for AFA culture.

[kisstour03]

We're also the last generation not to grow up with a price guide mentality.

Good point. I've never bought toys with the thought they would have value later. Even some "valuable" ones I buy now I could care less if they are worth more or less than I paid years down the line. I collect because A: Nostalgia. B: I like toys and all the pretty colors.

[dumbldor]

IMO you will start to see more Megos being graded going forward. EVery hobby now has some sort of grading. Baseball cards, Comic books, and now toys.
Even autographs have psa/dna etc..

I think even with the issues AFA has had in the past you will still see more and more people use it
Here are my reasons why:
1) people are curious to see what grade they will get on a figure - also people who are looking to flip or sell the item long term will want a grade so they have no hassel reselling it. Now they do not have to write a long winded ad picking out flaws and such that a buyer will argue that they saw or did not see because of the pictures. They will just say MOC Mego XXX AFA 85/80/85 etc. so they will just let the grade speak for it self.

2) another reason is after its graded the item is protected in that case. The case does display well and it protects your figure.

AFA is coming to mego, as more and more of these figures are featured on toy hunter, and toy shows, ebay etc..
people who want the rare figures will want to know what they are getting in terms of condition. And sellers will want top dollar. So all the really good MOC figures will be graded - all the mint figures on damaged cards will not be graded for the most part - because in those cases it ads no value. It only ads value to high condition figures - again just IMO

Megos over the last few years are really starting to jump. 2 years ago your average loose spiderman in good shape and up was about 30-35 bucks. Now the cleab ones are like 60 bucks. With all these mego remakes I think it id drawing more people back to mego. People wanting to collect them again, and people who have them that just want to sell them now.

I think if you have high grade you will want to grade it.
I have 2 case fresh spidermen MOC unpunched. I'm in the process of about to have them graded. one is just for the protection. the other is to see the grades.

I would certainly pay more for a graded figure than a non graded figure. but that is just me.
again I understand what most of you are saying. but this is just IMO. high quality should be afa just for display and protection alone. this way they stay that way

I disagree with this 100%. The logic you are using here, except for the impact of Toy Hunter, could have been used last year, several years ago, or even over a decade ago, yet an increase in grading of Megos has not come to pass.

How long have you been collecting high grade vintage Megos? The renaissance has come and gone. We are on the downside of the mountain now. The top was from about 2004 to 2008, give or take a year. Although there has been a recent bump in prices, with a few exceptions (like Action Jackson - who would pay over $25 for a boxed AJ?), prices are still significantly lower now than they were at the peak.

And I believe that you are overestimating the impact of Toy Hunter. On what basis will Toy Hunter lead more people to grading vintage Mego figures?

[dumbldor]

I think it also has to do with the fact that as toy collectors, for the most part we're coming back out of nostalgia as the primary motive. Mego are really play-friendly and super-articulated. You want to handle them.

We're also the last generation not to grow up with a price guide mentality. When it comes to toys at least (I often catch myself acting this way with comics for example, since I did grow up with those price guides and comic shops where I saw back issue pricing). There wasn't a hugely accessible culture of Toy Dealers when we were kids... we didn't even realize that could really be a job.

I'm firmly in the last rung of what we termed "Generation X", and the ones we call Generation Y, Nintendo Gen or simply Eighties kids would start with the latter years of Star Wars and encompass the large market for Gi Joe RAH, Transformers, MoTU, Thundercats etc. we're seeing right now.

Anyone younger than me would have had Wizard magazine shouting from every magazine rack and comic shop at them in their teens, tweens, and childhood, about how valuable all their childhood stuff is and would be. Wizard did have a piece of all that early grading action in the late nineties/early millenium as well didn't they? for them, there really never was much differentiation between "journalism" and Marketing if your owner/publisher also owns or is affiliated with retail venues.

toss in Pokemon cards, Beanie Babies, Pogs, and other such Price Guide driven fads/crazes, you've got a perfect storm for AFA culture.

This is a great post. I buy this 100%.

I would add to it that scarcity also has an impact. Take for example any 12 back, which are available by the thousands. With such a large surviving population, you have an opportunity for incremental upgrades. Some Star Wars collectors split hairs. Not just 80 vs 85, but a "high 80" from a "low 80" (based on subgrades), punched vs. unpunched, etc. If you want to upgrade your Star Wars piece, and you have the cash, the opportunity is there. Even the most common Megos, like a boxed AJ or a carded Spider-man, are uncommon compared to most surviving Star Wars products.

Half of the MOC WGSH are very very scarce compared to most contemporary (and newer) vintage toys. Good luck upgrading your carded Thor, Conan, or Supergirl, let alone a Catwoman, Riddler, Green Arrow, Aquaman, Lizard, Green Goblin, Wonder Woman, Falcon, Ironman, or US carded Fantastic Four.

[dumbldor]

you know all the boxed figures have been opened
that is why the mego MOC's go for way more money than MIB

the fact that its untouched is why they go for more for the most part - IMO

I'm sorry. It's going to seem like I am picking on you today.

This is 100% incorrect and spoken out of ignorance.

In fact, there are some characters that are more common MOC that sell for less than their MIB versions. Spider-man, Hulk, Robin, Fantastic Four (on Pin Pin cards) are good examples.

Some of the rest are reasonably similarly common MIB and MOC, and the prices are reasonably similar (Batman, Superman, Shazam, for example).

I would argue that there are some rare MOC (Lizard, GG, IM, Aquaman, GA, etc) that would be even more outrageously priced if the demand was not affected by collectors turned off by the near impossibility to "collect them all." Still, they are priced much higher than their MIB counterparts because they are insanely rare compared to most contemporary and newer toys.

[dumbldor]

There's a HUGE hub bub going on right now over this in Star Wars land. The basic gist of it is some guy is supposed to have bought up a bunch of unused cards and bubbles in the UK. and used them to reseal mint figures and sold as original. And did a decent enough job that it got by AFA and a lot of seasoned SW collectors. There's a lot of guys ready to quit the hobby now because it's thrown a lot of doubt on MOC collecting and even what variations came on what cards. I know a guy who spent YEARS working on guides for COOs and such and now all his work may be frigged because some variants may never be able to be verified as legit on certain cardbacks. It's a huge uproar.

The "carded" figures in question were all overseas issues like General Mills (German) and Palitoys (UK). There were (fortunately!) no Kenner US cards involved.

[dumbldor]

I will put my personal stamp here by saying that although I wish AFA did not exist and do not see any use for them with Megos, I do have quite a few AFA graded Star Wars figures. If you collect higher grade MOC or MIB vintage Star Wars, it is almost impossible (and would be foolish to pass up) AFA graded figures. There are way more graded figures out there now than ungraded (if you don't count beaters), and if the price is not a premium (good deals can be found sometimes on 80 or lower grades), then why not pick them up?

I have personally uncased AFA graded carded Star Wars figures.

I have also had a few graded (for resale), and it paid off big time.

[luclin999]

I would suspect that one effect that Toy Hunter might have on the market is a combination of "new" merchandise being introduced into it as some people realize that the box of "old dolls" they have in the basement may actually have some value, along with a complimentary amount of pricing confusion as many of these same people end up placing the items up for sale at wildly varying prices due to having zero understanding of the current market.

So we may see a lot more "Incredibly Rare!!!" loose T2 Spiderman figures being tossed out there with starting bids of $100+ which will sit untouched on Ebay for months at a time along with the occasional loose teen titan figure to pop up with a BIN of $25.

[the_nomad]

Oh yes. Don't even suggest touching up the paint on your Vintage Kenner Star Wars figures so they look nicer in your display. That's WRONG and will bring down the integrity of the whole community. That'll start a fire real quick. And don't buy a gosh darn golly gee whiz repro blaster for your Stormtrooper army display. It'll destroy the hobby. Don't suggest getting a carded Klatuu signed by the actor. It'll throw the earth off kilter. So many rules. There should be a 3-Day course for all the ins and outs.

Kisstour03 - looks like you and me are refugees from the same Star Wars forum! I don't post here much (see how few posts I've made in 3 years!) and mainly lurk as I find this a good place to find out about vintage toys in general, as the folks on here know far more than I ever will about most toy lines and it does appear to be very civil over here.

I have no problem with anyone repairing or repainting old toys, I did do a rather wonderful sewing job on the Mego Spidey suit I bought a little while ago today (if I do say so myself), so my fist fighting Spiderman looks the best he has in about 30 years - which encouraged me to come on here today!

A well meaning new guy on 'that' SW forum uttered the 'repro' word in the vintage section there the other day and the usual crowd pounced on him, so I figured, what the hell, lets put them on the spot, so I thew down the gauntlet and put up a post asking just why repros were so frowned upon in that community. I gave the examples of the Mego world world nobody has any issues about repro parts and stickers and noted how Dr Mego is a celebrity on a certain other message board. I also mentioned the Corgi die cast community where everybody is into repro parts and boxes and even repainting their treasured collectibles into code 3 customs! The only response was from a few other posters who wanted to know the answer to the same question! Not one of the anti-repro Star Wars crowd responded! Just about every Star Wars collector I've met in the 'real' world has at least a few re-cards in their collection or some repro guns, so I don't think the views of a select few on one message board really dictate collecting habits for everyone.

Personally, I'm hoping that controversy with the fake vintage SW carded figures that AFA passed that has just flared up will be the end of AFA (although anyone who has bought a vintage item and found out that its fake does have my sympathies for loss of financial outlay under false pretenses). I like my toys loose so I can pose them and make them look their best. Where I do have boxed or carded items its usually where the only version available to me (in the bad old pre-internet days of the 1990s) was packaged. To me, AFA grading just felt to me like another excuse to jack up prices (a bit like those old Wizard world price guides really). As noted elsewhere here, its crazy some of the prices that the most common figures are priced at once they're inside those acrylic cases. With this and the prices that Sideshow have hiked their prices up to I wonder sometimes if the majority of Star Wars collectors are doctors and lawyers, as with a kid, wife, mortgage and sick mother in law who needs help with her medical bills I don't have the spare money for that stuff! Although I guess the old adage goes that something is only worth what you're willing to pay for it, and some folks obviously appear happy to shell out prices like that.

[jwyblejr]

I think it also has to do with the fact that as toy collectors, for the most part we're coming back out of nostalgia as the primary motive. Mego are really play-friendly and super-articulated. You want to handle them.

We're also the last generation not to grow up with a price guide mentality. When it comes to toys at least (I often catch myself acting this way with comics for example, since I did grow up with those price guides and comic shops where I saw back issue pricing). There wasn't a hugely accessible culture of Toy Dealers when we were kids... we didn't even realize that could really be a job.

I'm firmly in the last rung of what we termed "Generation X", and the ones we call Generation Y, Nintendo Gen or simply Eighties kids would start with the latter years of Star Wars and encompass the large market for Gi Joe RAH, Transformers, MoTU, Thundercats etc. we're seeing right now.

Anyone younger than me would have had Wizard magazine shouting from every magazine rack and comic shop at them in their teens, tweens, and childhood, about how valuable all their childhood stuff is and would be. Wizard did have a piece of all that early grading action in the late nineties/early millenium as well didn't they? for them, there really never was much differentiation between "journalism" and Marketing if your owner/publisher also owns or is affiliated with retail venues.

toss in Pokemon cards, Beanie Babies, Pogs, and other such Price Guide driven fads/crazes, you've got a perfect storm for AFA culture.

To me,Wizard was the biggest group of hypocrites back in the day. One minute they're telling you don't put your comics in comic bags and use backing boards,then later on they were the first one to jump on the grading band wagon. Same thing over in Toyfare. They told you to open up your toys and enjoy them. Then when grading figures started they were the first ones to jump on that bandwagon as well.

[llseeker]

Hi guys, apart from Mego, I collect vintage SW heavily and also don't like AFA....

What I have found in this forum is that people are way more relaxed and forgiving than in the SW world. Maybe because of the repro-fobia in SW collecting I have focused only on original accessories, figures, etc. for my Mego collection, but it is refreshing to know that collectors here don't fight as much and don't have such radical views in regards of what anyone wants to put on his figures...

My 2 cents

Carlos

[Vinny0026]

[QUOTE=dumbldor;1112997]I disagree with this 100%. The logic you are using here, except for the impact of Toy Hunter, could have been used last year, several years ago, or even over a decade ago, yet an increase in grading of Megos has not come to pass.

How long have you been collecting high grade vintage Megos? The renaissance has come and gone. We are on the downside of the mountain now. The top was from about 2004 to 2008, give or take a year. Although there has been a recent bump in prices, with a few exceptions (like Action Jackson - who would pay over $25 for a boxed AJ?), prices are still significantly lower now than they were at the peak.

I have been collecting them on and off a long time - 30 years. At one point in time I had about 10 moc - like an idiot I sold them when i needed some money.
I had a few good ones - I had the yellow aquaman error card with batman gloves, I had a thor - card was real ruff I had an aqualad etc. But once I sold them I did not care anymore for moc as money was real tight. flash forward a few years later and I now have the bug to grab a few MOC.

for me personally I'm going for high grades. my intent is to get them graded or get them and have them graded. I just want to know what I'm buying so the grade for me helps rather than me try to judge what it is. Also today or tomorrow if i get pinched in a jam and have to sell at least they are graded - I do not have to try and list every flaw on the figure or buble or speculate what the grade would be.

last of all its for protection. these figures are 30-40 years old. I want to preserve what I buy from taking any damage. again its just IMO. But if i'm looking for high quality I just want to make sure thats what I'm getting.

if i was only looking for figures that were mint but on creased/damaged cards I would not care. But at this time for me quality is important so again just want to be sure of what I'm getting and once its graded let the sticker say what the figure is. But if you look at ebay carded megos are going for a lot more than they were. and some of these cards are real ruff. So i just think anything from the 70-80s graded is much better to have than non graded.

[Vinny0026]

I'm sorry. It's going to seem like I am picking on you today.

This is 100% incorrect and spoken out of ignorance.

In fact, there are some characters that are more common MOC that sell for less than their MIB versions. Spider-man, Hulk, Robin, Fantastic Four (on Pin Pin cards) are good examples.

Some of the rest are reasonably similarly common MIB and MOC, and the prices are reasonably similar (Batman, Superman, Shazam, for example).

I would argue that there are some rare MOC (Lizard, GG, IM, Aquaman, GA, etc) that would be even more outrageously priced if the demand was not affected by collectors turned off by the near impossibility to "collect them all." Still, they are priced much higher than their MIB counterparts because they are insanely rare compared to most contemporary and newer toys.

lol - no worries - I don't take anything to heart. I value yours and everyones comments. If we disagree so be it - but none of it bothers me as its just personal choice. graded or non graded.
again I never cared if they were boxed or carded - they were just nice to have. But if i'm going to shell out 250 for moc isis like i did last week. once i get it I just want her graded and protected. So the case for me is great for the display and protection. somewhere down the road if i need to sell her I just list her with her grade and people can buy or not buy due to the grade. this way if some one is a nit picker I do not have to deal with it haha. I have a few that are unpunched and in great shape. I never sent anything in yet for grades - i'm in the process now of reading the forms so I can send them to afa. plus i'm curious to see what some of these guys come back as.

[kisstour03]

lol - no worries - I don't take anything to heart. I value yours and everyones comments. If we disagree so be it - but none of it bothers me as its just personal choice. graded or non graded.

What is this?? Civility?? Holy friendly conversation Batman!! Not even an invite to meet up and fight at a convention. Mego people rock.