Iron Man Belt Clarification

[EMCE Hammer]

I just saw a ghost.

I like Greg, but his auctions can be pretty damn cryptic because his titles often contradict his descriptions. I can see how a less-experienced collector could get confused. I generally know my stuff, and I wasn't sure about the boots or gloves on this figure until I looked at the last pic. In most of the auction pics, the boots and gloves look really deep red, like the fake belt. In the last pic though, the normal orangish color is revealed on the boots. In person, all the Doc Mego belts I've seen are RED, redder than the mintest Iron Man boots or gloves. Greg's enhanced, filtered, whatever pics make the belt/boots/gloves on this figure look more uniform than they probably are. It takes a sharp eye and careful attention to the description to navigate a benbarb auction. If it were anyone else, I'd call them shady. At first glance I missed the fake sticker, and it's not listed in the description either.

[jimsmegos]

Personally I like the option of having the repro stuff available. Considering the nature of the economy it's nice to be able to grab a pair of boots for five bucks and have a complete looking figure versus a barefooted Batman looking all hungry and poor. Don't get me wrong if the option was mine I'd go original all the way. With that said though, considering the work and attention to detail (let alone all the accomplishments that EMCE has made) Doc Mego's stuff deserves a little more respect than to be grouped into a "forgery" classification.

But that's just my opinion.

[EMCE Hammer]

It's only a "forgery" if it's passed-off as original. Doc has never done that, nor ever been accused to my knowledge. For a lot of people, "real" = "original Mego;" "fake" = "reproduced." "Reproduced" may refer to a quality Doc Mego piece made by him or a factory in China; or it may refer to some rougher piece made by anybody.

[LonnieFisher]

If it weren't for Doc Mego reproduction items, we would not have had the re-made star trek and planet of the apes figures. No Emce toys and no new Mattel retro-action dc heroes. End of story. Without repro items we wouldn't have the slew of cool stuff that is coming out in 2010.

[jimsmegos]

Amen!

[Meule]

So basically if the piece is something that gets made in a mass-produced mold set-up it's labeled "factory"? Likely coming from China.
Perhaps an easier solution would be to have a piece-specific statement/warning under each suspect item (rather than the all-encompassing "hey, maybe there's a bunch of hand-made items out there")? Something like: "DM made/makes a repro of this piece but it's not factory made so be aware".
One piece specifically that came up in my travels is the ape general sword. I saw some on DM site but acc check doesn't mention this at all. That's a commonly missing original piece.

Neither I nor Anthony are trying to open a can of worms or start some sort of war here. We're just trying to make a great place even better. I think we are showing how much we care by pointing out things we find that could cause problems for others (not to mention ourselves).
Rich

What's so difficult to understand about factory produced?
Your suggestion about labelling every suspect item is just as impossible as including them into the accessory check. There's too many of them and we don't even know all of them.
I understand your intentions, but Dave is only one man doing all the work. Let's just be grateful for all he's done in stead of giving him more work.
You just have to read the descriptions carefully and when you have doubts ask the seller or ask here. I'm sure you'll get your answer

[hedrap]

This thread reads like everyone is dancing around a question that no one wants to ask.

Where do some people get repro parts that no one here claims to having access to?

For example, I can find GA quiver's and caps on Ebay, either solo or completing a figure, but no one here, of all places, knows who has the master mold? It's hard to conceive because we're not looking at shoddy repro work.

As for what Azrak wrote, I really get the feeling we're not supposed to discuss that.

[Boywonder0]

You cant buy a repro ironman belt,but you can buy a "firefighters" belt.

Learning a lot from thre PROS here! what is/was that "firefighters" line you are talking about here? Please let me know. Regards!

[justzeg18]

This thread reads like everyone is dancing around a question that no one wants to ask.

Where do some people get repro parts that no one here claims to having access to?

For example, I can find GA quiver's and caps on Ebay, either solo or completing a figure, but no one here, of all places, knows who has the master mold? It's hard to conceive because we're not looking at shoddy repro work.

As for what Azrak wrote, I really get the feeling we're not supposed to discuss that.

there are factory repro pieces out there that are no longer made available due to cease and decist notices from copyright holders. that is not to say that some collectors hadnt bought large quantities and are now getting them back into the marketplace.

Originally Posted by kryptosmaster
So basically if the piece is something that gets made in a mass-produced mold set-up it's labeled "factory"? Likely coming from China.

no, it's much more clear than that. Factory made means doc or ctvt contracted an actual plastics factory to mass produce these parts with legitimate commercial metal molds. just like the big toy companies do. everything else is 'hand made" even things made in a basement assembly line of rubber molds.

[warlock664]

Repro

Learning a lot from thre PROS here! what is/was that "firefighters" line you are talking about here? Please let me know. Regards!

There was no "firefighters" line; that's just a way of dancing around the fact that no rights fees are being paid to reproduce a trademarked character's item, so it can't be called "Iron Man's belt". Note that while the pic shows it in black, it "can be cast in any color". Regardless of what it's called, everyone knows its intention is to replace a missing Iron Man belt.
Personally, I don't think it's right to profit from reproduced items intended for trademarked characters without paying licensing fees. Offering headsculpts of recognizable characters and labeling them "Blonde girl head" or "youth head" seems wrong, as is selling a repro of a "barbarian belt" or "astronaut gloves" (which can also be cast in any color). I don't intend to offend anyone in particular, I'm just stating my general opinion.
Anyway, my main beef is with the unscrupulous individuals who attempt to pass these items off as vintage (making them forgeries by Azrak's definition).

[rchatlin]

An excellent point.

"ALL," "COMPLETELY," and "100%" are absolutes, with no room for exception.

The words "All Original" and "Except" in the same sentence seems like an attempt to confuse the issue.


r
o
b

I find this, from the auction

"He is complete and ALL ORIGINAL 100% vintage Mego with the only exception being his belt, guaranteed."

to be contradictory. (and somewhat misleading...)

If the belt is not original then it is not 100% original (in capitals to stand out in a cursory glimpse at the auction.).

Same in the Speedy auction, surely Greg can tell if it is original or not? The way it is written sounds puts an emphasis on it being all original and yet no guarantee....strange.

[English Paul]

This thread reads like everyone is dancing around a question that no one wants to ask.

Where do some people get repro parts that no one here claims to having access to?
For example, I can find GA quiver's and caps on Ebay, either solo or completing a figure, but no one here, of all places, knows who has the master mold? It's hard to conceive because we're not looking at shoddy repro work.

A question I have often wondered myself. I can't see that there are stockpiles of this stuff in peoples hands, but yet there is an abundance of the stuff on Ebay on a regular basis.

[PNGwynne]

Evilbay will remain so regardless of factory repros. True, some sellers are uninformed or mistaken. But many are disingenuous, deceitful.

In the nearly thirty years since Mego, we as collectors have supported numerous shoddily-designed toy lines, reams of poorly-written comics with bad art: Licensed items that poorly served characters we loved. And we supported them because that was all we had, we supported them from nostalgia & hopes of something better.

I have little sympathy for licensors--for the most part, it seems to me we as a fan community support them even as we collect, customize, & kit bash. We are not parasites. We fill a niche they refuse to acknowledge. They keep afloat on the latest summer blockbuster.

I partially see your point, Warlock--but a "blonde girl" is no more exclusive to Supergirl than a blonde fashion doll would be. A "youth head" is just that--what average contemporary collector recognizes those spit-curls as "Wonder-ful"? A studded belt is not only for Conan.

Repro parts may not thrill everyone (including licensors), but they enable customs & completion of damaged/incomplete figures--Vintage figures from a defunct company whose license has long expired. Let's not denigrate their availablity, which has sustained the toys we love and led to a resurgent interest in Mego-style figures. And licensors are making money on that resurgence!

Do we really need to explain why repro availablity is downplayed? How many talented people have we seen squashed by petty C&D letters?

[Remco Monster]

If I am buying a loose Mego, and can't tell in the photo if it has repro parts, I E-Mail the seller and ask questions such as if the parts have DM or CTVT on them. If the seller doesn't respond or responds with a vague answer, I don't bid. This has always worked with me, and I have yet to get ripped off. However, I know this doesn't help those who are unaware of repro items.

I don't mind repros as filler for display until I complete a figure with original parts, but it drives me a bit crazy until the figure is once again all original.

[warlock664]

Repro

I partially see your point, Warlock--but a "blonde girl" is no more exclusive to Supergirl than a blonde fashion doll would be. A "youth head" is just that--what average contemporary collector recognizes those spit-curls as "Wonder-ful"? A studded belt is not only for Conan.

I agree with you that the terms "blonde girl" or youth head" are sufficiently generic, but those items are nearly identical in appearance to vintage items. The blonde girl I can kinda dismiss, but the youth head is even described as "the original Dick head - without the mask", and clearly mimics the vintage Mego Robin/Dick Grayson head. And the "Barbarian belt" is further described as a "Conan belt". While it isn't possible to make a case that a belt itself is a trademarked Conan item, it's still clearly intended to replace an item from a vintage licensed product.
I'll agree that there have been many shoddy licensed items produced for Marvel & DC characters over the years, but that doesn't justify producing and selling unlicensed product for those trademarked characters.