Star Wars The Last Jedi Discussion

[jwyblejr]

The fans were going to complain no matter what. They all said it was going to be a rehash of ESB,got thrown a huge curveball instead.

[fallensaviour]

There are a lot of things I didn’t like about but there are several I did overall I’d say it is better than return of the Jedi for sure.

[Madcap70]

The fans were going to complain no matter what. They all said it was going to be a rehash of ESB,got thrown a huge curveball instead.

No it was ESB and Jedi plots mixed up instead of just a straight ESB re-hash...

[Earth 2 Chris]

Another thing that comes to mind on Last Jedi;

The characterization of Luke in the film has really divided folks. I've struggled with it a bit myself. After seeing it a second time, I believe it is a fitting portrayal, but even Mark Hamill has had trouble with it.

I listened to a podcast yesterday where two normally very chill hosts kind of lost their crap over it. But here's my question:

Based on what we were told in The Force Awakens, where could Rian Johnson have gone with him?

in Episode 7, Abrams tells us Luke abandoned the Republic when Kylo Ren slaughtered his fellow students, or converted them. As the First Order was rising, Luke turn tail and ran for the hills, literally.

How else was Johnson supposed to portray THIS Luke? Suddenly ready to come help Rey as soon as she shows up? And how would he explain that extreme change in character? Something had to happen...something DRASTIC for Luke to abandon his friends and his cause.

Johnson was basically painted in a corner to facilitate what Abrams had established. So all this hate can at least partially be pointed toward J.J. as well.

Just a thought.

Chris

[jwyblejr]

Just saw on YouTube yesterday Kevin Smith trying to defend this. You should read the comments section. It's pretty much torches and pitchforks over there.

[CrimsonGhost]

Another thing that comes to mind on Last Jedi;

The characterization of Luke in the film has really divided folks. I've struggled with it a bit myself. After seeing it a second time, I believe it is a fitting portrayal, but even Mark Hamill has had trouble with it.

I listened to a podcast yesterday where two normally very chill hosts kind of lost their crap over it. But here's my question:

Based on what we were told in The Force Awakens, where could Rian Johnson have gone with him?

in Episode 7, Abrams tells us Luke abandoned the Republic when Kylo Ren slaughtered his fellow students, or converted them. As the First Order was rising, Luke turn tail and ran for the hills, literally.

How else was Johnson supposed to portray THIS Luke? Suddenly ready to come help Rey as soon as she shows up? And how would he explain that extreme change in character? Something had to happen...something DRASTIC for Luke to abandon his friends and his cause.

Johnson was basically painted in a corner to facilitate what Abrams had established. So all this hate can at least partially be pointed toward J.J. as well.

Just a thought.

Chris

I think Johnson had to dig out of a giant J.J. sized hole. And, frankly, it was basically left for Johnson to go in whatever direction he wanted. There doesn't appear to be any over-arcing story to this trilogy, or even a framework, or even a direction from what I can tell. It seems to me that nothing really changed plot wise from the beginning of the film to the end.

This seems to be the J.J. Abrams way: He sets up possibly intriguing story elements, then walks away and lets it go where it goes. I mean, why not? It worked so well with LOST....

I actually feel that Luke acted exactly like Luke from the original trilogy. He's always had a side to him that was a big defeatist, whiny baby. "But I Was Going Into Tosche Station To Pick Up Some Power Converters!" and his pouty reaction to not being able to lift the x-wing out of the swamp. "You want the impossible." Luke can be a total jerk and often is... and in TLJ, he still is and he's gone all in. Luke had very little Jedi training (How long did he train with Yoda do you think? A week? It didn't seem very long) before Yoda passed into the force and Luke was the only one left to continue the Jedi. Of course he became depressed when things went wrong. That's the way I see it anyway.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^Good points. None of the Star Wars characters were perfect. The best, truest character is probably Leia, who never left her post. Han and Luke ran off with their tail between their legs as I said earlier.

Chris

[Nostalgiabuff]

i remember reading there was no trilogy mapped out, they rush the Force Awakens together and then are making it up as they go. I would have preferred to see Luke in action as a full on Jedi badass but I did not have a problem with how he was portrayed.

[Earth 2 Chris]

i remember reading there was no trilogy mapped out, they rush the Force Awakens together and then are making it up as they go. I would have preferred to see Luke in action as a full on Jedi badass but I did not have a problem with how he was portrayed.

Yeah, it seems like there is really no master plan, and originally the trilogy would have had three different directors, but the Jurassic World guy is being replaced by JJ.

I would have liked to have seen Luke kick butt in the flesh too, but I think Johnson made the tastiest lemonade he could out of the lemons he was given with that character.

Chris

[Hedji]

I actually feel that Luke acted exactly like Luke from the original trilogy. He's always had a side to him that was a big defeatist, whiny baby.

While I might not call my hero a whiny baby, I do agree that Luke's digging in and refusing to join Rey is more consistent with his character than many people realize.

(If you'll permit me to get all Joseph Campbell for a minute...)

Part of the "Hero's Journey" archetype in myth storytelling involves a "Call to Adventure" and an initial "Refusal of the Call". Last Jedi follows this template. In the original Star Wars, Luke receives the "Call to Adventure" from Leia's message and Ben Kenobi's suggestion that he go to Alderaan. Luke, as per the Hero's Journey, initially refuses. "I can't get involved!" Sound familiar? It's a similar response that he gives Rey. Now, I'll grant you that Luke's character evolves from Star Wars to Return of the Jedi, but he does have it in him to resist an outside request to join the fight.

Eventually, in both the original Star Wars and The Last Jedi, our hero of course answers the call and joins the adventure.

It's not the departure from the character that many people are accusing it to be, and it's consistent with mythological storytelling.

[Brown Bear]

Didn't both Yoda and Ben isolate themselves from society and hide? Just sayin'?

[Hedji]

Rejoice!!!!

John Williams has stated he's on board to complete the saga with Episode 9!!!!

[YoungOnce]

Didn't both Yoda and Ben isolate themselves from society and hide? Just sayin'?

While I was happy to see Yoda in TLJ, I was a little thrown off by seeing the giggling, stomping-his-feet Yoda from ESB. As I remember, the giggling goofy Yoda was a trick to throw Luke off from who he really was. After the secret was revealed, we never saw that Yoda again did we?

[Goblin19]

Ghost Yoda likes to party.

[Klosterheim]

Another thing that comes to mind on Last Jedi;

The characterization of Luke in the film has really divided folks. I've struggled with it a bit myself. After seeing it a second time, I believe it is a fitting portrayal, but even Mark Hamill has had trouble with it.

I listened to a podcast yesterday where two normally very chill hosts kind of lost their crap over it. But here's my question:

Based on what we were told in The Force Awakens, where could Rian Johnson have gone with him?

in Episode 7, Abrams tells us Luke abandoned the Republic when Kylo Ren slaughtered his fellow students, or converted them. As the First Order was rising, Luke turn tail and ran for the hills, literally.

How else was Johnson supposed to portray THIS Luke? Suddenly ready to come help Rey as soon as she shows up? And how would he explain that extreme change in character? Something had to happen...something DRASTIC for Luke to abandon his friends and his cause.

Johnson was basically painted in a corner to facilitate what Abrams had established. So all this hate can at least partially be pointed toward J.J. as well.

Just a thought.

Chris

Right. The new movie had to be based on events and plot facts in The Force Awakens.

In The Force Awakens, they really should have had Han, Leia, Luke, Chewbacca and Lando, (with the droids), all living in the same neighborhood on whatever the new Capitol Planet would be after the victory they had at Endor.

Even leaving that planet on various space missions, they all should have had some kind of good life together.

Luke could have set up the Jedi Temple there, or travelled back and forth from a new Jedi Planet. "Planet of the Jedi", that sounds like a movie title that George Lucas would come up with.

I think it would have been better to detail and set up the background of the major things that happened in the Galaxy after the fall of The Emperor.