Doctor Who: The End of Time question

[Earth 2 Chris]

So I caught most of "The End of Time", David Tennant's last episode. I have one question: Who was that older woman? She appeared to Donna's dad and was seen with the Time Lords and the Doctor knew her.

His mom? His wife?

Did they ever confirm who she was, or is it just one of those nice mystery seeds being planted?

Chris

[samurainoir]

doctor's mother.

Russell T. Davies wrote in an email to the author of The Writers Tale, "I like leaving it open, because then you can imagine what you want. I think the fans will say it's Romana. Or even the Rani. Some might say that it's Susan's mother, I suppose. But of course it's meant to be the Doctor's mother."[11]

[Earth 2 Chris]

^Ah. Thanks for that. That was my first guess.

Was there any follow-up to this?

Chris

[palitoy]

Not really, Moffat took over right after this.

[johnmiic]

I think that is the answer tho there were 2 people who abstained the vote. I thought they were his parents.

Someone I used to talk to on Face Book said it was the Black & White Gaurdians which makes no sense to me.

One other alternative hint is in one of the DW monster/character books tho. There's a pic of the person(s) with faces covered and the caption notes, Weeping Angel pose. Maybe they were going to suggest an origin for the Weeping Angels and abandoned it? I thought that was a curious caption in the book.

It may have been this edition:

[Earth 2 Chris]

^Weird. I think I prefer the Mom version.

Chris

[samurainoir]

I always like the idea that they were Romana and Susan.


I'm not hugely familiar with the novel and audio drama storylines, but there was an animated/audio adventure which adapted Shada for Romana and the 8th Doctor, with an added wraparound sequence showing her as the President of Gallifrey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4lC_vJu9wg

In my own "personal inner continuity" she was the President when the Time War broke out and was ousted by Rassilon as things escalated.

Lots of theories abound about HOW Rassilon came back.

[johnmiic]

^Weird. I think I prefer the Mom version.

Chris

Your answer is the best. It's just I saw that caption in the book.

[Mikey]

It wouldn't be Susan because Susan's not a Timelord

I don't even think she can regenerate - but that's another topic

[samurainoir]

I don't think it's "officially" been established either way has it?

So what is Susan's backstory if she isn't The Doctor's actual grand-daughter or a native of Gallifrey? How did she get on Gallifrey and why is she (assuming that is her) being ushered onto the TARDIS in this clip?

I'm actually kind of bummed they put this scene into continuity. It kind of clashes with my "inner personal continuity" because it shows the Doctor leaving Gallifrey as an old man, rather than a younger, brasher Hartnell Doctor... or even another previously unknown incarnation. I thought it was neat showing his mind-war with Morbius and regressing into a bunch of faces prior to Hartnell that we've never seen before.

Interestingly enough, the new minisode establishes the 8th Doctor regenerating into a much younger John Hurt, which suggests that he was his "8.5/War Doctor" incarnation for a relatively long time compared to the rest... enough for this body to show signs of aging). Unless there is another explanation?

[Mego Magyar]

It wouldn't be Susan because Susan's not a Timelord

I don't even think she can regenerate - but that's another topic

True, while all Time Lords are Gallifreyan not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords. I think that's been established before but I can't remember in what episode.

Good to see you back Mikey!

[jds1911a1]

True, while all Time Lords are Gallifreyan not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords. I think that's been established before but I can't remember in what episode.

Good to see you back Mikey!

Invasion of Time - Tom Baker 78 season with Leela - while not nearly as good as Deadly Assasin still a solid gallifrey episode

Susan's lineage has never been cleared up on tv, but in Audio form Big Finish there are some stories of her travels before she and the Doctor came to earth
The Beginning (just out but fitting for the 50th)

http://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/the-beginning-756

Quinnis (referenced in the 3rd story Edge of Destruction)

http://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/quinnis-494

and ones during her travels with the doctor IAN and barbara

http://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/here-there-be-monsters-465

http://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/the-flames-of-cadiz-746

and a grown up susan post 5 doctors meeting Paul mcgann's 8th doctor
An Earhtly Child (the 2010 subscriber bonus audio but is also avaialble for purchase)

http://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/doctor-who-an-earthly-child-442

4.07. Relative Dimensions - this one builds off events in QUINNIS and Earthly Child but you can listen to it without the others - and this is a christmas themed story and would also be fun for anniversary listening

http://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/relative-dimensions-545

[bobws]

All this is speculation since i believe it was never stated exactly who she was.

[samurainoir]

All this is speculation since i believe it was never stated exactly who she was.

Yeah, but it's always been fun amongst fans to conjecture, and create their own ideas on who the character is.

I kinda like this bit, particularly since I've just watched An Adventure in Space and Time...

Ford stated that little background information on Susan's character or history was provided to her by the production team, and so to inform her performance, she would often discuss and invent ideas about Susan with co-star William Hartnell.[16] They established that Susan had "done something to annoy the other Time Lords" which caused her and the Doctor's exile.

Plus it's not established in the Name of the Doctor that they did leave Gallifrey together.

and i totally want to read this novel now, which has her meeting the 8th doctor. She ends up with the Master's TARDIS at the end and goes off traveling in space and time to have her own adventures.


This sounds even cooler--

This story provides a major reason for why the Master had regenerated into his final form when the Fourth Doctor met him in The Deadly Assassin. The reason provided in this novel is that the Master stole a Dalek Superweapon, and with Susan in tow, took his TARDIS to Terserus. However, Susan used the telepathic circuits to overpower the Master, and kicked him out of his TARDIS. He was still clutching the superweapon when Susan shot it with the Tissue Compression Eliminator, causing it to explode. Susan took his TARDIS, and the Master regenerated. Chancellor Goth detected the TARDIS leaving the planet, and found the Master there. From there, the events of The Deadly Assassin take place.

[johnmiic]

I went back to the bookstore and found that odd caption. It's on page 109 if anyone is interested. It shows 2 Time-Lords covering their faces. Definitely 1 man and 1 woman and the Doctor's Parents theory totally works for it. Still the caption reads something like this: Posture reminiscent of Weeping Angels. Could there have been an undeveloped plot to tie the weeping angels origin to these mysterious characters?