Weird, original Trek question

[ctc]

So;

In the original series it was noted that ship captains were usually drawn from the helm classification; which was why Kirk switched from Security. In the show the other captains we saw all wore the mustard top; which is also worn by the Helm department. The question is: was that top worn by ALL ship captains, or would someone who was promoted say, from Science wear a blue one while on duty?

Don C.

[Mikey]

Good question,

I have no proof but I would say only a mustard shirt "command shirt" can be a ship's captain ...

Other shirts can be Captain and above, but can't command a ship.

Spock in Wrath of Khan confirms this (see his white collar)

[Mego Magyar]

I think the way it worked was that there were 3 section on a starship - blue for science ( includes medical ), red for technical/security, and mustard for command/officers the people in it only for rank and promotion. While a person from a different section could be promoted to captain, as soon as he was he would wear the appropriate color for his new rank.

My 2 cents.

[jds1911a1]

thats the way I remember it too

[UnderdogDJLSW]

Yup. Also, each ship had their own insignia, but the symbol on the insignia was always the same. Star for command, double circle for sciences, lightning bolt thing for engineering, etc.

[LadyZod]

This continued into the later incarnations (i.e. LaForge going from executive burgandy to engineering mustard when he left the bridge to head up engineering in TNG).

The way I saw it was:
You wore your uniform for you rank and job. Once your job changed, you got a new uniform. If you were in security and were promoted to command you now wore the command uniform.

[Earth 2 Chris]

^Yes, yes, and yes. I think that is correct. Some of the other ship insignias from TOS were really strange looking. Nice of Starfleet to adopt the Enterprise insignia for us later on.

Chris

[MysteryWho]

Commodore is a rank above Captain, right? How come some of them wore red shirts?

[jds1911a1]

Commodore is a rank above Captain, right? How come some of them wore red shirts?

Yes there was a commodore with a red shirt (the Lonely years) but he was not a line offcer commander (as shown by his inability to make command decisions so even old kirk was better at it)
'
A commodore (in the us naval traditon) is officially a title of position (with a temporary increase in pay grade) this is a temporary rank of assignment with command over other units or forces to complete a purpose or task (ie a convoy of supplies). The commodore has command over a group of ships for a speific purpose but is not in direct command of any of them, and makes decisons on general stategy not ship fighing tactics) and the rank ends with the task, reverting them to captain status, while and rear Admiral lower grade is a 1 star admiral in command of a fighting force of ships

clear as mud right?

[ctc]

>The commodore has command over a group of ships for a speific purpose but is not in direct command of any of them, and makes decisons on general stategy not ship fighing tactics) and the rank ends with the task, reverting them to captain status

But they'd still be pulled from the pool of senior officers.... likely someone who's actually commanded a ship. Which is why it's confounding that you see that guy in a red shirt. I don't think they'd make a Department Head a commodore over an actual ship captain, (unless they were desperate) and it'd be weird if he was considered a member of his trade for the duration of his appointment.

....but it's not impossible; or maybe commodore is assumed a technical trade? Sounds weird, but then again there's like, forty officers to every enlisted on a Starfleet ship.

Don C.

[Boshek]

What if ... Captains and Admirals, and maybe first officers, had their own color? Maybe Kirk's green from his dress uniform. I can picture it in my mind.

[sprytel]

What if ... Captains and Admirals, and maybe first officers, had their own color? Maybe Kirk's green from his dress uniform. I can picture it in my mind.

All the "gold" uniforms were supposed to be green... they say they just photographed as more golden under the lights. It is more obvious with the materials for the belly shirt and the dress uniform, which were intended to be the same color palette but read more green.

[ctc]

>It is more obvious with the materials for the belly shirt and the dress uniform, which were intended to be the same color palette but read more green.

This is gettin' complicated! I remember the VERY original uniforms were all mustard, weren't they? From the pilot. And Kirk's weird shirt.... I know later on green; albeit a darker green was supposed to be the colour of the Marines. Who got written out of the series around the Next Gen time, 'cos Roddenberry wanted to downplay the military aspects of the setting. (There were refrences to them in the RPG, and as I recall there IS a couple in one of the movies, or tv series.... I can't remember which, but you do see a couple people in the body armour, with green hilights.)

Don C.

[MysteryWho]

Yep, I believe they were more of a green color but photographed as a gold.
It reminds me of that story where Vina from the pilot kept changing back to Caucasian
after processing because they thought the green was some weird photographic error!
Nevertheless, all command personnel seem to have the same outfits. Meanwhile,
Commodore Stone (Court Martial) and Stocker (Deadly Years) are in red, while Decker
(Doomsday Machine) is in gold.
I also didn't get the impression that Commodore was a temporary, assigned position
as it may be in the actual Navy. It may just have been an oversight or an aesthetic decision.
Like all those extras who changed rank and department from episode to episode but are all
clearly the same few people, I believe they were just hoping no one would notice.

[MysteryWho]

Actually, I just checked Memory Alpha and they claim there is such a thing as an Operations Commodore.
I guess it's similar to how someone can be promoted from a specific division to a position that oversees
a number of departments, as in police service hierarchy? I'm definitely reaching here.