Wow, Marina Sirtis was almost a Latina in TNG

[Hector]

From Wikipedia:

"Gene Roddenberry was inspired to ask the exotic-looking Sirtis to audition for a role after seeing the film Aliens with Bob Justman, which featured the prominent Latina character 'Vasquez', played by Jenette Goldstein. Sirtis and Denise Crosby initially tried out for the other's eventual role on The Next Generation. Sirtis' character was going to be named Lt. Macha Hernandez, the Security Chief. Gene Roddenberry decided to switch them, and Macha Hernandez became Natasha Yar. Sirtis recalls that on the day she received a call offering her the role of Deanna Troi, she was actually packing to return to England, because her six-month visa had ended."

Can you imagine?

Lt. Macha Hernandez???



As a Latino, that would've been soooooooooo cool by me, lol.



Arriba, baby!!!

[K]

Wow! Interesting!

I've heard Marina in interview saying that she's been up for roles of various ethnicities: Latina, Italian, etc. and remember...she played a Middle Eastern woman in "Crash".

Interesting that she and Denise Crosby were originally up for each other's roles. It's hard to imagine now!

[Hector]

Yes, always interesting to find out about what happens behind the scenes.

Marina Sirtis owes her exotic looks to her being of Greek ancestry. although she's a Brit by birth.

What do you think about Denise Crosby quitting about the first season?

I saw her in person back in 1988 in LA, and she was stunned at the positive reception she received from the fans, she was so gracious, but you could see in it in her eyes, she had this look of "What did I do, why did I quit this awesome show???"

As you probably know, she did come back for some recurring roles, especially as Romulan Commander Sela...and producing the documentary, Trekkies.

[Mikey]

If i'm remembering correctly, Marina played a Hispanic in Death Wish-3.
They gave her a dubbed voice that was really horrible.

[johnmiic]

Well, there may be more to that story behind the scenes. The fact that Denise Crosby left and for season 2, Gates McFadden was off the show, could've been more internal politics. Gates got to return to her role by season 3 tho I think people said Rodenberry would not let her come back. Denise did come back for a guest starring role as Tasha in Yesterday's Enterprise and as the 1/2 Romulan daughter of Yar, Sela.

ST-TNG is notorious in american television history for having a high number of writers quit and move on because allegedly, lot of shady things were going on behind the scenes with Rodenberry and a lawyer he employed named Maltzish,(?).

Marina's and Denise's parts may have been switched to try & prevent David Gerrold from winning a lawsuit where he charged that he wrote the writers bible for ST-TNG and should be billed as creator or co-creator of the show. Gerrold has never said this himself as the case was settled out of court and a gag order was imposed on all parties. ( A gag order is an agreement that no matter what, if everyone settles without a trial they will never, never, ever tell anyone whay they sued in the first place).

This was confirmed, in part, by Haralan Ellison at a Creation con I attended in NYC years ago where he said, paraphrasing, that he warned David not to get involved in ST-TNG. He said he repeatedly said that Rodenberry and his people were un-trustworthy but he wrote the writers bible and they screwed him over. I also read something to this effect in the un-authorized Gene Rodenberry Bio. which is not a bad read. All the official bio's make Rodenberry out to be a saint but this one does outline a lot of the bad things he did to people who worked for him.

I think if you read Star Trek, Star Trek: "Where No One Has Gone Before" : A History in Pictures by J.M. Dillard, there is a chapter which addresses this directly stating David Gerrold could not be billed the creator of the new show because the writers bible was put together by many people, tho I don't recall her stating who these other people were and still Rodenberry is the only person listed in every episode's credits. Kind'a strange that a gag order was imposed and yet this author seems to know a lot about a lawsuit that didn't involver her. So somebody loyal to Rodenberry supplied the author with the details.

[ABMAC]

Roddenberry was a first class Richard head. He wrote some horrible lyrics to the original Star Trek theme just to screw Alexander Courage out of half of his royalties.

[K]

I do recall an old interview in which Patrick Stewart even said that the female characters were not given much to do and he admired them for doing a lot with sometimes tiny parts. I think that improved as the series went on; they'd give Crusher an ep, Troi an ep, etc. Perhaps Denise wouldn't couldn't wait around for more screen time? I'm not sure. I was never really sure why/how her departure went.

Also, there are a few good Marina interviews on YouTube. There are also some with Denise. I did NOT know she's Bing's granddaughter! Interesting.

She's also quite a cook. She was on an episode of a cooking show (sorry! Can't recall the name!) and she cooked a Greek dish for her segment.

[toys2cool]

Can you imagine?

Lt. Macha Hernandez???

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/df/DeannaTroi.jpg/250px-DeannaTroi.jpg

As a Latino, that would've been soooooooooo cool by me, lol.

http://www.sevenoaksart.co.uk/teddies/mexicoted.gif

Arriba, baby!!!

i agree,that would've been pretty darn cool

[ABMAC]

It's the modern equivalent of blackface. Having Marina Sirtis play a Latina means one less job for a true Latina.

[huedell]

It's the modern equivalent of blackface. Having Marina Sirtis play a Latina means one less job for a true Latina.

For some reason, I'm thinking making that comparison is QUITE a stretch Ant

Seriously though---if its sincerely "job security" for those of certain descent
you're thinking about----that's like---affirmative action---and I certainly
don't think that's needed in casting roles

"Yeah she's great in the role but she's not a TRUE whatever" doesn't
seem to be hold much water

[HardyGirl]

I remember at a convention, Marina talked about having to invent an "accent" for her Betazoid heritage, b/c she was told by producers there was already "one Brit on the Bridge", (who was supposed to be French, go figure.) When we met Mrs. Troi, (a wonderful role by Majel Barret-Roddenberry), she said she tried to break Deanna of her accent she got from her father. When we see her father in a "dream sequence" in the last season, he sounded as Americana as apple pie. Marina got a kick outta that.

[mego73]

Well, there may be more to that story behind the scenes. The fact that Denise Crosby left and for season 2, Gates McFadden was off the show, could've been more internal politics. Gates got to return to her role by season 3 tho I think people said Rodenberry would not let her come back. Denise did come back for a guest starring role as Tasha in Yesterday's Enterprise and as the 1/2 Romulan daughter of Yar, Sela.

ST-TNG is notorious in american television history for having a high number of writers quit and move on because allegedly, lot of shady things were going on behind the scenes with Rodenberry and a lawyer he employed named Maltzish,(?).

Marina's and Denise's parts may have been switched to try & prevent David Gerrold from winning a lawsuit where he charged that he wrote the writers bible for ST-TNG and should be billed as creator or co-creator of the show. Gerrold has never said this himself as the case was settled out of court and a gag order was imposed on all parties. ( A gag order is an agreement that no matter what, if everyone settles without a trial they will never, never, ever tell anyone whay they sued in the first place).

This was confirmed, in part, by Haralan Ellison at a Creation con I attended in NYC years ago where he said, paraphrasing, that he warned David not to get involved in ST-TNG. He said he repeatedly said that Rodenberry and his people were un-trustworthy but he wrote the writers bible and they screwed him over. I also read something to this effect in the un-authorized Gene Rodenberry Bio. which is not a bad read. All the official bio's make Rodenberry out to be a saint but this one does outline a lot of the bad things he did to people who worked for him.

I think if you read Star Trek, Star Trek: "Where No One Has Gone Before" : A History in Pictures by J.M. Dillard, there is a chapter which addresses this directly stating David Gerrold could not be billed the creator of the new show because the writers bible was put together by many people, tho I don't recall her stating who these other people were and still Rodenberry is the only person listed in every episode's credits. Kind'a strange that a gag order was imposed and yet this author seems to know a lot about a lawsuit that didn't involver her. So somebody loyal to Rodenberry supplied the author with the details.

Yup, I have learned that the great bird of the galaxy did fly a little crooked sometimes.

[danadoll]

For some reason, I'm thinking making that comparison is QUITE a stretch Ant

Seriously though---if its sincerely "job security" for those of certain descent
you're thinking about----that's like---affirmative action---and I certainly
don't think that's needed in casting roles

"Yeah she's great in the role but she's not a TRUE whatever" doesn't
seem to be hold much water

I have to agree with Anthony...I'd prefer to see somebody of the character's ethnicity get the role.

Huedell...Would you feel the same if any old actor played the Falcon (John Leguizamo?), Luke Cage (Jackie Chan with a tan?), the Mandarin (Steven Sagal?) or Sunfire (Tom Cruise with make up to make him look Japanese?)...If no actors of the same ethnicity of said characters were thought of as being suitable by the casting crew? Hollywood has made some terrible choices in casting over many, many years and they continue to miscast ethnic roles....I think it's a huge insult to actors of the characters' ethnicities to not get the roles...Losing out to more popular actors (regardless of ethnicity).

Dana

P.S. I hope my examples don't offend anybody, They're just meant to illustrate the point of Hollywood's awful casting choices.

[samurainoir]

It's the modern equivalent of blackface. Having Marina Sirtis play a Latina means one less job for a true Latina.

They would never get away with it these days now that there is a heightened sense of cultural sensitivity.

Keep in mind in the eighties Vasquez herself (from Aliens) was not actually latina! I was astounded when I first saw the actress out of "blackface" in Near Dark and even her subsequent appearances in Terminator and Titanic it was hard to believe it was the same person from Aliens. On the other hand, it was a very strong and memorable performance.

Nice to live in times where Jennifer Lopez, Penelope Cruz and Salma Hayek can make their marks in Hollywood.

I have to agree with Anthony...I'd prefer to see somebody of the character's ethnicity get the role.

Huedell...Would you feel the same if any old actor played the Falcon (John Leguizamo?), Luke Cage (Jackie Chan with a I tan?), the Mandarin (Steven Sagal?) or Sunfire (Tom Cruise with make up to make him look Japanese?)...If no actors of the same ethnicity of said characters were thought of as being suitable by the casting crew? Hollywood has made some terrible choices in casting over many, many years and they continue to miscast ethnic roles....I think it's a huge insult to actors of the characters' ethnicities to not get the roles...Losing out to more popular actors (regardless of ethnicity).

Dana

P.S. I hope my examples don't offend anybody, They're just meant to illustrate the point of Hollywood's awful casting choices.

Ideally "Blackface" should definitely be a thing of the past, although Spike Lee used it effectively in Bamboozled.

The other thing is that the issue is not necessarily as "black and white" as it might seem at first glance. In fact it can get increasingly complex once you start breaking it down past Asian/Caucasian/Black/Latino.

I'm sure we all agree these days that David Carradine potraying an asian person wouldn't cut it. Neither would Mickey Rooney or Joel Grey. (I'm unsure about Yul Brynner since he claims Mongolian heritage).

On the other hand, how specific do we get with ethnicity and culture when it comes to the land of make-believe that is Hollywood? One thing that has always bothered me is Hollywood misidentifying Japanese and Chinese and interchanging the usage of the language when it is potrayed. Remember the "Japanese" Race Car driver Jackie Chan played in Cannonball Run? The one who actually spoke Cantonese?

I believe Disney had a step in the right direction when they opted for a predominantly Asian voice-cast for the Asian characters in Mulan, but half of that cast (consisting of the most recognized asian actors in hollywood) were in fact Japanese, not chinese. I also cannot deny that Miguel Ferrer and Harvey Fierstein did a great job with their roles even though they are not asian. At the end of the day however, does it really matter given the fact that it is a vocal performance in the English language?

Not that Siam exists anymore, but we have a character that should be what we describe today as Thai, potrayed by chinese actor Chow Yun Fat in Anna and The King. This was prior to Tony Jaa, so was there even a Thai actor known to a North American audience? (not that Jaa could even pull off that performance).

We've also have mostly chinese actresses playing japanese in Memoirs of a Geisha. Does that matter given that the films are English language and the actors can pull off a convincing performance physically? Are there Japanese actresses out there that are better North American Box Office draws than Ziyi Zhang and Michelle Yeoh off of Croaching Tiger, Hidden Dragon?

I know Koreans think it's hilarious that the Jin on LOST doesn't actually speak "proper" Korean (he's a American of Korean descent who's first language is English, and I"m told that is what it sounds like). I'm pretty sure Ando on Heroes is Korean and pulls off his performance phonetically (or is he half Korean/Japanese? you see where things get tricky?).


The other "Gray" area for me is that in our increasingly multicultural society (at least where I live in Canada), there is also increasingly a culture of mixed heritage personages. So that even classifying someone as Asian/Caucasian/Black/Latino becomes a bit difficult. Would it have made a difference for example if Maria Sirtis were one quarter latina?


If so, then we have ourselves an Asian Superman in Dean Cain!

Another thing for us to ponder:

Should Hetero Actors potray Gay Characters? Does that take away opportunities for Gay Actors?

There is certainly a long tradition of Gay Actors playing Straight characters.


It does become an interesting issue when applied to an "invisible" minority. Does it simply mean that the playing field is leveled? Both Gay and Straight actors vy for the same Gay and Straight roles? And what about the bisexuals?


In the same vein, if a Korean Actor can convincingly play Japanese or Chinese, does that even out the playing field for all Asian Actors?

How about Mexican, Puerto Rican, or any of the many flavours of Central and South American?

If they physically can pull it off, and convincingly speak the language or adapt the proper accent (depending on what is required of the role), is that enough?

I guess at the end of the day, we should be glad that minorities are finally getting a bigger chance to shine on the bid screen than they have in decades past. That is a good start. Now we need to see folks build on that with more diversity and multiculturalism to reflect the world around us and the increasingly shrinking planet.

[Hector]

I have no problem with Marlon Brando playing Mexican revolutionary Emiliano Zapata in "Viva Zapata!"

Paul Muni played the role of Mexican president, Benito Juarez, a Mexican/Zapotec indian, in "Juarez", again, no complaints from me.

Russell Crowe played a Spaniard in "Gladiator".

Mexican actor Ramon Novarro was Ben Hur.

The leading Native-American actor in Apocalypto, Rudy Youngblood, is from Belton, Texas, he's definitely NOT of Mayan decent (no people, not all indians are the same).

My point is, why should an actor, regardless of race, be limited to certain ethnic roles?

Acting is acting, the world of make believe.

P.S. And for your information, Hispanic is not a race, we come in all shades and colors.

Have you guys ever seen telenovelas before?

P.S.S. Good post, Samurai.


Oh, ok, you guys want the real deal?