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  • johnmiic
    Adrift
    • Sep 6, 2002
    • 8427

    #31
    Originally posted by Hector
    I don't know why some dudes () have the need to say she's not all that and that...lol.
    I knew you wouldn't like it but it's just my opinion. (Not sure how you mean the use of the word "dude" tho).

    Originally posted by Hector
    (OK, Thandie Newton is NOT African-American, lol)
    You're right and neither is Melanie Brown/Scary Spice. My mistake.

    Originally posted by Hector
    He's not a romantic leading man, (Ian McKellen).
    Still an A-Lister tho. Magneto? Gandalf? Not romantic roles but extremely high visibility nonetheless.
    Last edited by johnmiic; Oct 17, '11, 11:19 PM.

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    • Hector
      el Hombre de Acero
      • May 19, 2003
      • 31852

      #32
      I'm talking romantic leading roles...just like PNGwynne pointed out...

      sigpic

      Comment

      • Hector
        el Hombre de Acero
        • May 19, 2003
        • 31852

        #33
        Originally posted by johnmiic
        I knew you wouldn't like it
        Then why did you???

        JUST TO PIZZ ME OFF????????????










        sigpic

        Comment

        • Dark Shadow
          Creature Of The Night
          • May 14, 2011
          • 1070

          #34
          Originally posted by mego73
          I think Ellen lost her show because it became less funny because she partially made a advocacy platform out of it. First, she came out in real life and then she wanted to shift her fictional show from one where her character was straight to where she also comes out as gay. Such a decision was not motivated by the comic possibilities, it was motivated to send a message. And if the show's writers and other talent do not have the chops to artfully send that message in comedic form, people will be turned off to it. And the show, while pleasent enough, was not in that upper echelon to begin with (the All In The Family, Mary Tyler Moore show echelon).

          Drop kicking "Ellen" from a confectionary fun comedy to a socially relavent comedy was not ever likely to work and that is what Ellen D. was trying to do.

          I bet "Ellen" would've been fine for a few more seasons if Ellen the actress came out, but "Ellen" the show stayed the way it was.
          I think that the backlash was more reality driven than fictional character/story related. Take a look at the success of Will & Grace which hit the screen just months after the demise of Ellen. Where Ellen attempted to offer a comic portrayal of a unique gay character portrayed by an equally unique gay individual, Will & Grace played upon sterotypes portrayed by (seemingly) straight actors. Ellen attempted to get the audience to laugh "with" the character while Will & Grace encouraged the audience to laugh "at" the characters. There was no thematic or social advocacy ground covered by Ellen which did not get trampled over by Will & Grace.

          Incidentally, the actor who portrayed Jack on W&G, Sean Hayes, purposely concealed his own homosexuality from the public (all the way up until a little over a year ago) because he (and NBC) feared the same backlash.

          Comment

          • Werewolf
            Inhuman
            • Jul 14, 2003
            • 14974

            #35
            Originally posted by Dark Shadow
            There was no thematic or social advocacy ground covered by Ellen which did not get trampled over by Will & Grace.
            For all the hysteria the Ellen show caused at the time, the show itself was actually quite mild. An oddly enough I don't recall many people having problem with Xena at the time. A lesbian actress playing a one is too much for people but it's okay when its two straight actresses. Go fig.
            You are a bold and courageous person, afraid of nothing. High on a hill top near your home, there stands a dilapidated old mansion. Some say the place is haunted, but you don't believe in such myths. One dark and stormy night, a light appears in the topmost window in the tower of the old house. You decide to investigate... and you never return...

            Comment

            • bobws
              Permanent Member
              • Feb 13, 2008
              • 3479

              #36
              I Never thought Xena and Gabrielle were "That" kind of partners. Even though they are heralded by those who claim they were.
              "Hang on Lady... We go for a RIDE!" - Shorty to Willie Scott.Best movie line from Indiana Jones & the Temple Of Doom

              Comment

              • Werewolf
                Inhuman
                • Jul 14, 2003
                • 14974

                #37
                Originally posted by bobws
                Even though they are heralded by those who claim they were.
                Lucy Lawless even said the characters were a couple.

                AUSXIP Lucy Lawless | Lesbian News 2003
                You are a bold and courageous person, afraid of nothing. High on a hill top near your home, there stands a dilapidated old mansion. Some say the place is haunted, but you don't believe in such myths. One dark and stormy night, a light appears in the topmost window in the tower of the old house. You decide to investigate... and you never return...

                Comment

                • torgospizza
                  Theocrat of Pan Tang
                  • Aug 19, 2010
                  • 2747

                  #38
                  Originally posted by mego73
                  The headline I saw was "Spock is gay"...
                  And thousands of slash fiction fans had their hopes confirmed.

                  Comment

                  • johnmiic
                    Adrift
                    • Sep 6, 2002
                    • 8427

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Hector
                    Then why did you???

                    JUST TO PIZZ ME OFF????????????



                    Shooting from the hip, dude.

                    Comment

                    • Gorn Captain
                      Invincible Ironing Man
                      • Feb 28, 2008
                      • 10549

                      #40
                      Isn't it strange that people are Science Fiction fans, they like aliens and monsters and two-headed creatures, yet they feel awkward about someone being gay?

                      We can be so open-minded in fiction, yet narrow-minded in reality.
                      "I don't mind that he's from Alpha Centauri, as long as he doesn't kiss a man in public..."

                      It's a strange world...
                      .
                      .
                      .
                      "When things are at their darkest, it's a brave man that can kick back and party."

                      Comment

                      • PNGwynne
                        Master of Fowl Play
                        • Jun 5, 2008
                        • 19944

                        #41
                        Originally posted by Gorn Captain
                        Isn't it strange that people are Science Fiction fans, they like aliens and monsters and two-headed creatures, yet they feel awkward about someone being gay?

                        We can be so open-minded in fiction, yet narrow-minded in reality.
                        "I don't mind that he's from Alpha Centauri, as long as he doesn't kiss a man in public..."

                        It's a strange world...
                        Yeah, I remember being ticked off with ST:TNG--they would do suggestive Trill and hermaphroditic alien stories, but could they even in 10 Forward or in the back-ground show a same-sex couple? Evidently that was too alien, which is odd considering the setup of the ship.

                        And yet the gripe with TNG is, "too PC."
                        WANTED: Dick Grayson SI trousers; gray AJ Mustang horse; vintage RC Batman (Bruce Wayne) head; minty Wolfman tights; mint Black Knight sword; minty Launcelot boots; Lion Rock (pale) Dracula & Mummy heads; Lion Rock Franky squared boots; Wayne Foundation blue furniture; Flash Gordon/Ming (10") unbroken holsters; CHiPs gloved arms; POTA T2 tan body; CTVT/vintage Friar Tuck robes, BBP TZ Burgess Meredith glasses.

                        Comment

                        • johnmiic
                          Adrift
                          • Sep 6, 2002
                          • 8427

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Werewolf
                          Lucy Lawless even said the characters were a couple.
                          One of the female producers of the show, I forget her name, is a lesbian and she told the writers to incorporate the lesbian sub-text into the show.


                          Originally posted by PNGwynne
                          Yeah, I remember being ticked off with ST:TNG--they would do suggestive Trill and hermaphroditic alien stories, but could they even in 10 Forward or in the back-ground show a same-sex couple? Evidently that was too alien, which is odd considering the setup of the ship.

                          And yet the gripe with TNG is, "too PC."
                          This is Rodenberry's Reach. Tho he promised there would be homosexual characters on ST-TNG he also prevented it from happening, with the involvement of his lawyer, Leonard Maizlish, as well, check out this inteview w/David Gerrold:

                          TVShowsOnDVD.com - David Gerrold Interview - Part 3

                          Comment

                          • UnderdogDJLSW
                            To Fear is Not Logical...
                            • Feb 17, 2008
                            • 4895

                            #43
                            Star Trek Phase II got Gerrold to direct his "Blood and Fire" the way he wanted it to be scripted. Things are well handled, but even that episode sort of goes "Hey look at these guys...". What I would like to see on movies and TV are just subtle, everyday things like maybe two actors in a restaurant scene holding hands or things like that, but I guess we are still in the phase of everything having to be highlighted or a ratings grab.
                            It's all good!

                            Comment

                            • PoorMansJB
                              Member
                              • Nov 1, 2010
                              • 99

                              #44
                              Originally posted by UnderdogDJLSW
                              What I would like to see on movies and TV are just subtle, everyday things like maybe two actors in a restaurant scene holding hands or things like that, but I guess we are still in the phase of everything having to be highlighted or a ratings grab.
                              The recent and much ballyhooed Hangover-eque episode of Psych has just such a moment: While investigating the central crime, the team encounters two "partners" (something Lassi completely misinterprets). It's a very brief scene but nice in that the couple's status is obvious yet completely incidental -- beyond the fact that they're being gay effectively eliminates them as suspects in this particular incident -- and aside from having to explain to Lassi, no one otherwise makes any comment about them.

                              Oh, and I play for the other team but Saldana? Yes, SMOKIN'! As I like to say, "I may be immune, but I'm not blind."

                              Comment

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