The People VS George Lucas

[palitoy]

Finally saw this last night, it drags in parts but I found some of the arguments intriguing. The film goes through Lucas's career and tries to make sense of all the fan backlash, is Lucas a toy peddling master mind or merely an auteur? The film gives a pretty balanced argument for both.

What I enjoyed the most of it was the turning the camera back on the fans, especially dealing with those that "hate what they love". It's an interesting culture that definitely doesn't apply to merely to Star Wars. I've seen the same thing in toy collectors, record store clerks and Doctor Who fans...

A clever and at times a laugh out loud funny film.
The People vs George Lucas Splash

[Brazoo]

One of the reasons I stepped aside from that one is because I felt like the movie was going to be about a conversation I've had a million times already - and I'm a little sick of it now - but if it's critical of the fans too then I might think it's interesting, that adds a new twist.

[Cmonster]

I liked this as well, Brian-- I don't think he's raped anyone's childhood, but what he has done, is make some really awful movies. It's funny-- before the prequels, I used to think Jedi was kinda lame, especially compared to SW and ESB. But after I saw the prequels??? Those 3 movies make Jedi look like a masterpiece.

So for me personally, what the sequels have done, is make me appreciate Return of the Jedi. I'll take the Rancor, the Sarlacc and even the Ewoks over those God forsaken prequels any day of the week...

SC

[Gorn Captain]

I think fandom, and especially people with an opinion about Lucas, can be divided into sections.
You have those that feel that they own SW, even more so than its creator. They feel they should have a say about everything SW, and how they want to see it all executed. These people probably need some medication and counseling. They live in a fantasy world, and sometimes resort to hating what they love.

You have those that are critical about what they love. They still love most of it, but they have their reservations about certain directions the franchise is going in, and try to keep an open mind. They will for example love The Attack on the Death Star, but dislike it when half a dozen Gungans get CGd in the background shouting "weesa gonna blow that thing skyhigh!".
Thes people are not haters, they are thinkers. They will love lots of things in the prequels, but hate it when C-3PO get his head slammed on a Battle Droid shouting "Die Jedi dogs!". Because that just doesn't fit into the basic concept of SW, as set up in the original trilogy, by Lucas himself.
But basically, they love, but with a healthy dose of common sense, which The Creator has often forsaken now...

Then you have the fans who love it all unconditionally. Nothing wrong with that, but it blinds you to mistakes, even those made by The Creator. It must be a glorious feeling to embrace it all unconditionally, but it doesn't stimulate independent thought.

So you basically get three groups:

1. I believe so hard, I'll be angry at anyone that messes with my concept.
2. I believe, but I still want to think about it and keep challenging the concept.
3. I believe, and the concept can never be wrong.

[palitoy]

So for me personally, what the sequels have done, is make me appreciate Return of the Jedi. I'll take the Rancor, the Sarlacc and even the Ewoks over those God forsaken prequels any day of the week...

I remember disliking it's "muppety" quality immediately, the tone change was apparent even to 12 year old me. I thought it was good but kind of thought I had outgrown Star Wars.

The prequels just simply don't matter to me, I didn't like them but I don't really have any umbrage about it. My kid really likes them.

The most interesting argument for me is the constant changes to the originals and his stubborn refusal to release them as shown originally.

[ctc]

>You have those that feel that they own SW, even more so than its creator.

That's one of the things I think perpetuates through ALL the nerdly arts any more. Too many of the fans come in with solid preconceptions that can't possibly be fulfilled and scream blue murder when they aren't. I can understand something losing the appeal; sometimes the paradigm shifts and the new one isn't to your liking, sometimes you just get tired of something, sometimes you outgrow stuff.... and moving on is fine. But a lot of folks don't. They ruminate.

I feel sorry for the folks who have to carry on with any sort of enduring franchaise like Star Wars. You've got to placate the oldsters while bringing in new fans. And you can't. The old crowd is gonna be displeased with anything that's not EXACTLY like it was when they were 10 (an impossibility since those opinions were made by a 10 year old and contain a lot of projection) and the new crowd isn't going to be impressed with anything that doesn't emulate the current standards.

....and then the cogntivie dissonance kicks in. Dissonance leads to nerd rage, nerd rage leads to baffling posts, baffling posts leads to more cognitive dissonance....

I can't help but feel this is something relatively new; at least to the degree we see it now. I don't remember hordes of angry nerds protesting the Buck Rogers tv show.... how they sleazed it all up compared to the source material; or throngs railing against the Flash Gordon movie, and how it raped their childhood by turning the classic comic into a comedy. But I DO remember similar protests about the Lone Ranger film from the same time, so maybe it's the magnitude of the nerd rage that's changed?

Don C.

[Brazoo]

I remember disliking it's "muppety" quality immediately, the tone change was apparent even to 12 year old me. I thought it was good but kind of thought I had outgrown Star Wars.

The prequels just simply don't matter to me, I didn't like them but I don't really have any umbrage about it. My kid really likes them.

The most interesting argument for me is the constant changes to the originals and his stubborn refusal to release them as shown originally.

I'm exactly the same. So, he made a few great movies and then a few crappy ones? Almost every well known filmmaker does that - big deal.

[Cmonster]

So, he made a few great movies and then a few crappy ones? Almost every well known filmmaker does that - big deal.

No. James Cameron has never made a crappy movie. Sorry--

SC

[Werewolf]

I don't think he's raped anyone's childhood, but what he has done, is make some really awful movies.

Lol, yeah. SW fans seem to fall into two extremes. The apologists (Lucas is god. Lucas can do no wrong) and the raped my childhood nutters. I fall into the, meh. I liked the original trilogy flaws and all and don't care for the new ones because they are legitimately bad movies. Same as Howard Duck and Willow. They are just bad movies.

Doesn't ruin my childhood though and I have to admit, I did really like Crystal Skull. Except for Shia.

No. James Cameron has never made a crappy movie. Sorry--

SC

Piranha 2?

Nah, I'm just teasing. As a matter of taste, I personally don't care for Titanic or Avatar. But Aliens is by far my favorite of all the Alien series. Great movie.

[MIB41]

I think if I could sum up the Star Wars phenomenon (and subsequent love/hate relationship with fans) I would say this - In 1977, before Star Wars came out, the genre was plagued with a major image problem. Most everyone viewed science fiction fans as nerdy losers who ate their boogers while watching forgettable and unoriginal stories with horrid acting and terrible dialogue. After Stars Wars came out, all of those notions and stereotypes faded from view. Suddenly science fiction became a hip and sophisticated form of entertainment...FOR EVERYONE. Star Wars broke down so many barriers about what the public would be willing to see. It was not only an event, but a new STANDARD by which all subsequent films would be measured. The entire marketplace was forever changed. That original trilogy ran from 1977 to 1983. And while the quality became commercially less attractive by the third installment, it's reputation remained largely untarnished.

Now, fast forward 16 years. Lucas has decided to revisit that magical world once again. Special effects have transformed dramatically since that original film in 1977. Lucas advertises he has very patiently and methodically been working on another great story and effects that would be worthy of the legacy that is Star Wars. People start getting in line not just weeks, but MONTHS before the first showing. On opening day people pile into the theaters. Some quit their jobs because they can't get off to see the first showing. Some willingly get fired from their professions, so they are among the first to witness this "magic" once again. The response is so manic, a visibly disturbed and shaken Lucas steps up to the public podium and tells everyone to "Calm down. It's just a movie." No one listens as beads of sweat run from Lucas' brow. For once, they should have listened.

Star Wars, a once proud and all original franchise, has come full circle. The very thing that it tried not to be in 1977, it has embraced full force in 1999. The stories become forgettable and unoriginal. The acting and dialogue is horrid. Oh, and now those nerdy, loser kids eating their boogers have returned in all their glory. YES... Star Wars is now the entertainment equivalent of crack for nerds. And once more society is changed forever. Is there truly any reason not to understand the love/hate relationship with George Lucas?

[jds1911a1]

No. James Cameron has never made a crappy movie. Sorry--

SC

I think Abyss is pretty bad but maybe that's just me. I wasn't in love with t2 either. He has made geat films and ones I just don't care for a but...same as SPeilberg and Lucas

No one is perfect

[Hector]

The Abyss is one of my all time favorite movies.

[Hector]

The thing about Cameron is that he's selective...and his productions are very demanding (as Sandy would know more than anybody in here)...that's why he has directed a mere eight Hollywood movies.

[Hector]

I liked this as well, Brian-- I don't think he's raped anyone's childhood, but what he has done, is make some really awful movies. It's funny-- before the prequels, I used to think Jedi was kinda lame, especially compared to SW and ESB. But after I saw the prequels??? Those 3 movies make Jedi look like a masterpiece.

So for me personally, what the sequels have done, is make me appreciate Return of the Jedi. I'll take the Rancor, the Sarlacc and even the Ewoks over those God forsaken prequels any day of the week...

SC

You hit the nail on the head multiple times...lol.

[Brazoo]

No. James Cameron has never made a crappy movie. Sorry--

SC

I disagree, but anyway, I did say "almost every well known filmmaker..."

I can actually think of a few well known directors who have never made anything I'd consider to be crappy - but that seems like a whole other discussion for another thread maybe - no?