Dr who the end of time part 2

[Mikey]

"JNT, like RTD, started out well, and then seemed intent on "doing it his way", even if that was not to the benefit of the show."

I have to disagree ....

JNT started out horribly ... Tom Baker's last season (JNT's first) is truly a chore to watch.
IMO, it barely gets better after that except for a few outstanding stories during the Davison era.

RTD took a show that took itself too seriously and made it fun.
JNT took a fun show and made it too serious.

Both changed the show during their time and both let the show slip later on during their watch, but at least RTD left the show basically as he found it ... JNT ran it into the ground, imo.

Man, me sticking up for RTD ?
Who would have ever thought

[Gorn Captain]

[i]
Man, me sticking up for RTD ?
Who would have ever thought

Get help, man.
fast!

I think the world will end sooner than 2012. Mike's losing it....

[ctc]

>I only got interested when Ace joined and the Seventh Doctor's personality kicked in

I agree. I kinda think they WANTED to do stories with more depth at that point.... kinda like the newer ones.... but were held back. If you read the novelization of a few of 'em you can see how there was SUPPOSED to be a lot more going on in them that sort of gets glossed over in the actual episodes.

Don C.

[jds1911a1]

I sounded like I was speaking with some of knowledge, I wasn't. I just felt that McCoy's first season felt a lot like some of Bakers, cartoony villains, gore and an annoying assistant.

I only got interested when Ace joined and the Seventh Doctor's personality kicked in, he will always be one of my faves.

Healthy debate Bryan nothing more - if it felt like swatted your statement down, it wasn't intended as such. I don't claim to be an expert either many fans are far more into the behind the scendes drama in who than I am.

[jds1911a1]

"JNT, like RTD, started out well, and then seemed intent on "doing it his way", even if that was not to the benefit of the show."

I have to disagree ....

JNT started out horribly ... Tom Baker's last season (JNT's first) is truly a chore to watch.
IMO, it barely gets better after that except for a few outstanding stories during the Davison era.

RTD took a show that took itself too seriously and made it fun.
JNT took a fun show and made it too serious.

Both changed the show during their time and both let the show slip later on during their watch, but at least RTD left the show basically as he found it ... JNT ran it into the ground, imo.

Man, me sticking up for RTD ?
Who would have ever thought

I'm with Mike and again who would have thought I would defend RTD. i think a major difference is JNT was out to "prove" he deserved his job as a new producer (and very young) on an influenctial show. He made changes to make them in hopes of changing the show audience while Putiing his stamp on it. He wasn't thinking about what's best for the show it was about showing his stuff to the boss. In doing so he forgot what made the show a success in the Pertwee years and early tom baker in his desparate attempt to "modernise" it on a small budget. the end result was the sets look even more cardboardy than they did in the earlier shows and scripts were sacrifices for effects shots

RTD came at the show from a fan's perspective (since he was a fan of the show) but he got too wrapped up in dilineating the show from the classic while throwing in snippets from the classic (the tv movie suffers the same thing)

[palitoy]

I'm in RTD's corner, he brought back Doctor Who and did it with a lot more of the original canon than the US version. I didn't like all of his choices nor was I thrilled with his love for deus ex machine nor his seeming hatred of the obese but the overall product was can't miss TV for me.

I have good feelings Steve Moffat (sp?) will deliver even better Doctor Who but we wouldn't have gotten there without RTD.

As for JNT, I was never a big fan, he tried to hard to fix what wasn't broken IMO. I don't know how people can blast RTD so hard and look to the 80s as some sort of "golden era" for the program, plenty of groans there.

[jds1911a1]

I'm in RTD's corner, he brought back Doctor Who and did it with a lot more of the original canon than the US version. I didn't like all of his choices nor was I thrilled with his love for deus ex machine nor his seeming hatred of the obese but the overall product was can't miss TV for me.

I have good feelings Steve Moffat (sp?) will deliver even better Doctor Who but we wouldn't have gotten there without RTD.

As for JNT, I was never a big fan, he tried to hard to fix what wasn't broken IMO. I don't know how people can blast RTD so hard and look to the 80s as some sort of "golden era" for the program, plenty of groans there.

Agreed the 70's are a the real golden era for classic who.

[Thor]

I was just think about regeneration and here is my own theory. There are two levels to the Doctor's personality, there is a base level that each incarnation inherits from the first doctor and there is the outer level that alters when the doctor regenerates. This change occurs because his brain chemistry alters along with his outer appearance. So basically each incarnation is the same person but in other ways he is very different. Opinions?

[Mikey]

Watched The End of Time again last night.

Seemed a lot more palatable on its second viewing ... probably because I didn't have overly high expectations.

Something I noticed, the "cantina" scene only had RTD creations making that scene a final goodbye from the whole RTD era ... neat idea.

[ddgaff1132]

I got to see both parts. Thanks to Comcast on demand.
I disliked the TimeLords being alive. When the show arrived on Sci-Fi channel. It was stated that the Doctor was the last of his kind. You really cant say this if the rest of your race is stuck in an un-ending time bubble. The timelords being evil is totally plausible to me. Many stories seem to lean to the possibility that they were currupt. I like the Doctor/Master relationship and was happy to see the charactor return. Although his ressurection was kinda hokey. I really liked the wrap up. The series seemed to state that meeting the Doctor brought tragedy to people. So in the end, letting the Doctor better his former companians lives was a good notion. I think David Tennant's reluctance to regenerate mirrored my own feelings. This Doctor was dying and I would never see him again. I really liked Tennant's rendition of the Doctor. He portrayed that grief and rage that a lone suvivor might have very well.