What did you think of DW's WARRIORS OF THE DEEP ?

[Mikey]

I finally had a chance to watch the famous Peter Davison story WARRIORS OF THE DEEP last night.

I was prepared in advance hearing many opinions of why this is THE WORST Doctor Who story ever ..... Or, at least in the top 3 worsts ...

But, I watched it with an open mind ... and considering it's one of the last classic stories i've never seen, I made sure to watch and enjoy everything about it with an open mind ......

My opinion.....

It's not that bad.
It's not great or even good ... but i've seen a lot worse.

With a few changes I think it could have been at least a mediocre fan fav.

1. Change the ending

2. Get rid of that lousy monster ...... Note: If you have to use a lousy monster suit, don't centre on it for 20 minutes.

3. Silurians should not say "EEEEEEXCELLENT"
"EEEEEEXCELLENT" should only be said by classic Cybermen and Mr Burns

4. The Sea Devil's are Warriors ? ....... They look like they'd go down with one punch to the neck.

5. Speaking of Sea Devils --- Buck Roger's Draconians called and said they wanted their helmets back

6. If Davison hated the smell of that suit, WHY did he wear it throughout the whole story ? ... Did he begin to like the smell ?

7. Episode One's cliff-hanger was one of the worst cliff-hangers in the series' history ... So the doctor fell in water -- who cares ?

8. This story could have been shrunk down to a 2 parter ... 4 episodes is just way too long ...

9. The Silurian having light on their heads that flash when they talk is just stupid ..... Also, speaking of the Silurians again --- note to producers - DO NOT PUT SMILEY FACES ON BAD GUYS

10. Again, the ending was horrible ..... It runined the whole story.

What do you think ?

[Gorn Captain]

I only have dim memories of this one, how long has it been? 1985?

I just remember the monster, that seemed to be a reject of a Chinese new year parade...
Well, I'll buy the DVD eventually. But it's not on my A-list...

[palitoy]

I read the book before I saw the episode, it was an ok story. The resulting show is dreadful, the sets are overlit, the Silurians light up like daleks, they refer to the Sea Devils as "Sea Devils", the Murka is the weakest monster seen in ages and it's poorly paced.

I was really excited to see two great villains from the Pertwee era return, too bad it had to be one of the worst of the Davison era.

[Gorn Captain]

Nobody loves the Murka.....

[jds1911a1]

It was ok but has plot holes you can drive a lorry through

SEA devils was a term from the first victim in Sea devil ep 1 why wouild Silurian call them that

I will not call it the worst of the Davison era I will reserve that for Kinda

[MysteryWho]

I just have one question.
Is it worth bothering,really?
I'll get from the library tomorrow.
I liked the Pertwee episodes with the original appearances a lot.
The Master/Doctor sword fight was too much fun.

[bobws]

Yes it had problems, yes the Myrka was a mistake( the producer didn't get the costume until it was due on set to be filmed and the paint was still drying!) the names devil and silurian should not have been used by the reptiles themselves, yes they could have used this opportunity to have the give proper species names. (oops) but the i did like the ending, sometimes even the Doctor can't help humans or other species to just get along! it's a morality tale to think about war and prejudice and realize where we might be headed. i think that worked.

[ctc]

Hmmmm....

I kinda think the origional comments; about this one being a near-miss, are correct. It's ALMOST good, but I think they overstretched themselves on a few points. One thing I noticed about the Davison run that I didn't noticed when I first saw them (being 10 or so) is that they were trying for something new, without losing the old. The Silurians were a new design, but still based on the original. THAT I like. (It's the same sort of thing they've been doing with the new show.)

But I think they went into battle without a strong plan, so they never really decided exactly where it was they wanted to go with the new show. So you get episodes like this, with really good bits and really bad bits.

Don C.

[Mikey]

Speaking of the whole Davison era ......

I personally didn't much care for it ......

Yes, I was a huge Baker fan and that fact left me bias toward Davison .....
But as time went by I went on to get used to Davison and now after all these years I can finally sit back and assess his era in the context of the whole Classic Series.

Davison's era was rather boring -- to tell you the truth.
Davison himself was kind of boring.
Whenever I get done watching a Davison story, instead of feeling fulfilled, I feel like I just finished a chore.
I take a breath and think -- good, it's finally over and I watched it all.

IMO, JNT was trying too hard to "take the series back to it's roots"
On reflection, the "series roots" were not exactly great ... many of the early Classic Series stories were rather bad.

When I watch a Davison story, I feel like i'm watching a Hartnell story --- and that's not necessarily a good thing.

[ctc]

>Davison's era was rather boring -- to tell you the truth.
Davison himself was kind of boring.

Yeah. I felt that a lot of the time they were WAY too self-conscious and trying too hard to be a "serious" show. In some ways it worked; such as the rethinking of some of the older monsters, but a lot of time it felt kinda stiff. Especially after the Tom Baker years.

Things changed a bit for the Colin run; they introduced more sweeping ideas and far-out characters, but they still had some of that stiffness. A lot of his run seemed forced. And then poor Sylvester McCoy! He ws my favourite Doctor, but a lot of the episdoes were all over the place story-wise. It looked like you had a fight going on between the people who wanted tighter, more plausibe stories from the Davison years, and a bunch of folks who wanted the old "what the hell was THAT?!?!?" Doctor back.

All told, I consider all three runs to be near misses. Had they polished SOMETHING up; either writing, plot, pacing.... they could have all been great stories.

Don C.

[Mikey]

McCoy was a great Doctor ...
It's strange because i've only came to this conclusion within the last few years.
When his series was new I brushed off his Doctor as "the guy that replaced poor Colin"

McCoy's problem was he was literally out of his time.
He should have been the Doctor after Pertwee in the mid 70's....
No disrespest to Tom.
I just think McCoy would have shined in the 70's when JNT didn't call the shots.

[palitoy]

The Davison years were a mixed bag for me, I was a ravenous fan during the Baker years and while I felt I could hold my head up high that DW was more straight science fiction, it wasn't a heck of a lot of fun either. Baker's last season was something I enjoyed because it was bringing the Doctor into the 80s but maybe it was too 80s.

Stuff like "Kinda" and "Logopolis" didn't really gel with me, I found the series at times far too sterile and Davison himself didn't seem to ever get comfy with the role.

Colin Baker never worked for me, I like to rewatch his stuff now though. The series did too much of a 180 for me, loud unlikable Doctor, dreary stories, lots of gore. Those weren't the things I wanted in the show.

McCoy brought me back to the series, his first season is largely lamentable, it's still Colin's show by that point. Mel is the most annoying assistant ever.

The last two seasons worked for me really well, JNT put some mystery back into the Doctor and it really worked IMO. The relationship with Ace had to have inspired RTD to create Rose. Some of the stories were clunkers, stuff like "ghostlight" just sort of rambled but when they were good, it was some of the finest. Of course, then it got cancelled.

Personally I think JNT went out on a high note, I loved, hated and tolerated his tenure.

[david_b]

Davison was such a great actor.. but yes the script writers and pacing let them down. I just don't think they really settled on a good theme or approach for Davison (like the early, more gothic Baker stories, the action years of Pertwee, etc.).

Davison obviously didn't think much of everything, which is why he left. I blame JNT, JNT, JNT for the overall direction of Davison's tenure. I liked Davison a lot as a change from Baker's final years, where Tom really slowed down due to fatigue and illness.

But, yes, the Silurians story paled quite a bit next to the Pertwee episodes. Peter Davison had some great eps, such as Arc of Infinity, Earthshock, Caves, Kings Demons, Four to Doomsday, etc.. I don't recall all the names, but Davison did get lucky on some occasions.

"The Five Doctors" was a bit padded for my tastes, and was simply a anniversary vehicle anyways..

[Gorn Captain]

Davison was the one Doctor that didn't work for me. He missed that spark, the eccentricity, the "age".
I liked Colin Baker, because he was a bit harsher, sharper. But like Davison, he had to contend with some poor stories. Two Doctors, anyone?
McCoy had some bad stories, too, but progressed nicely, and I really liked him. Honestly, I'd give good money to have him back as the Doctor right now. Call it a retro-active regeneration. A degeneration.
I think the Doc should have some age to him. With the new one, we're heading into diaper country.

[Mikey]

The problem with the New Series is they're trying to differentiate themselves from the Classic Series and at the same time trying to remain faithful.

Picking up bits and pieces here and there.

When it comes to the Doctor's youth, the New Series grabbed onto the wrong part of the Classic Series -- the JNT years.

They got away with it once with David Tennant.
They got LUCKY.

IMO, they're pushing their luck.

Even young people don't want to see the Doctor as old as them.
It's just don't feel right.

Nobody wants to see Dr Doogie Howser more then once.